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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 14 2019, 2:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 14 2019, 2:29 PM EDT
This one looks interesting. Sam is a different character in the promo photos (or a VERY different version of himself). Dean and Jack take a road trip to visit Rafael (I think that's the "old friend" referenced in the synopsis. Looks like Cas and Sam might time travel. Now that Michael is dead...I have no idea what the rest of this season will be about! Do you find this valuable?    
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kate38
kate38
1. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 14 2019, 9:17 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 14 2019, 9:24 PM EDT
Okay, that was a weird one.

I can’t say I liked it overall, but I appreciate the creativity that went into it. I also appreciate some of the humor; Stepford Sam was hilariously creepy. I’m sure Jared and Misha had fun filming those scenes.

I thought the big bad was interesting, but I wanted to know more about who/what he is. Is he just a psychic and that's it? He's powerful enough to control everybody's mind in town, and then make a dude's head explode FIVE miles away?!

I liked Donatello’s discussion about souls and what they do. And I think it’s a VERY bad sign that Jack doesn’t know how he feels. Sam’s response was the same when he didn’t have his soul. I’m pretty sure Jack’s soul is gone, especially considering what he did to the snake.

That's one of my long-time criticisms of Jack. His logic is too absolute and he has extremely poor judgement. He likely thought he was doing the snake a favor by killing it (which he probably was, since he couldn’t even figure out how to feed it). I know this opinion is unpopular, but I’m gonna say it anyway. Jack's poor judgement has been a problem for a long time. The only time he's helpful as a weapon is when someone else (Mary, Cas, the Winchesters) tells him WHO the bad guy is, and points him in the right direction. Then, he goes all el-destructo and kills the monster. Unfortunately, Jack is an unpredictable grenade that’s just as likely to explode in your hand and kill you as it is to explode across the street and kill the bad guy. And now that he probably lost his soul, he has no moral center whatsoever, which makes him extremely dangerous for everybody – including those he’s supposed to care about. Theoretically, he may not care about anyone or anything anymore. There’s no way this can end well for him. I don’t think TFW will kill him, but they’ll have to bind him somehow. I see the Malak box in his future.

[...continued...]
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kate38
kate38
2. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 14 2019, 9:17 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 14 2019, 9:30 PM EDT
[...continued...]

I remember over summer hellatus that we were promised a more emotionally grounded season this year. The writers are certainly delivering that! Sam has had some emotionally powerful performances this season. It’s nice to see. I wasn’t all that broken up about the AU hunters, but Sam’s mourning gives them a more profound sendoff than they’d have otherwise received. He is haunted by their deaths in a way we rarely see from Sam, considering all the deaths and losses he’s experienced. The writers could’ve just eliminated the AU hunters and kept rolling, but they’ve decided to give that story some additional depth. Of course, the AU hunters we know best (Bobby and Charlie) weren’t at the bunker for the massacre, so we mostly said goodbye to some folks we didn’t know that well to begin with. At first, I wondered why Sam was taking their deaths so hard, but since he felt responsible for them as their leader, it sorta makes sense.

Did anyone else wonder why Cas couldn't just do his "soul-onoscopy" thing to see if Jack has a soul? Maybe that only works on humans??

At first, I thought Dean was shirking his responsibility by taking Jack to see Donatello. But after thinking about it, what else was he supposed to do? He has no magical way to determine if Jack is okay or help him deal with not having a soul. I don't think he had a lot of choices there. Cas sorta left him holding the bag there.

Speaking of Castiel -- NICE fight scene!! I miss seeing how amazing warrior-Cas can be.

kate
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kate38
kate38
3. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 14 2019, 10:38 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 14 2019, 10:38 PM EDT
Oh, I almost forgot! Did you guys recognize Dr. Kazinsky -- Sam's psychiatrist from The Born Again Identity? He was Harrigan - the psychic big bad :) Do you find this valuable?    
journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
4. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 14 2019, 11:14 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 14 2019, 11:20 PM EDT
I did not like that one AT ALL. 2 out of 10 and it only gets two because of the one hilarious Cas line "God has a beard".

I hate that apparently Sam thinks he failed as a leader because the AU hunters are dead, Sam's a great leader! It was Michael! Not much he could do about that.

BTW...how did Michael leave Dean's body but still appear, disembodied, to Rowena in Dean's form in the last episode?

Anyway, this one was awful. Even Dean and Jack's road trip was lame and not interesting. The 50's humorous persona written for Jared fell totally flat. I still don't truly understand who or what the town mayor was.

All I learned was that Jack's all-powerful and different than he was. I wondered if his standard now is "what would the Winchesters do?" if he'll sacrifice himself for them somehow this season. Because that's what Sam and Dean would do.

But he killed the snake to give it a better life, he thought. The whole snake thing was weird. I think Jack can't discern right and wrong, so maybe he does not have a soul now. But he thinks he's doing good, but he may not be.

Yes, Kate, I thought the same that Jack may end up in the box. Even with Michael gone, I am sure we have not seen the last of that box. They spent too much time setting it up.

I hope to never see this one again. It's right up there (or, actually, down there) with Dog Dean Afternoon.
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kate38
kate38
5. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 15 2019, 6:39 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 15 2019, 6:41 AM EDT
"BTW...how did Michael leave Dean's body but still appear, disembodied, to Rowena in Dean's form in the last episode?

Anyway, this one was awful. Even Dean and Jack's road trip was lame and not interesting.

All I learned was that Jack's all-powerful and different than he was. I wondered if his standard now is "what would the Winchesters do?" if he'll sacrifice himself for them somehow this season. Because that's what Sam and Dean would do.

But he killed the snake to give it a better life, he thought. The whole snake thing was weird. I think Jack can't discern right and wrong, so maybe he does not have a soul now. But he thinks he's doing good, but he may not be.

Yes, Kate, I thought the same that Jack may end up in the box. Even with Michael gone, I am sure we have not seen the last of that box. They spent too much time setting it up.

"
Hi, JBB :)

I thought that, too -- about last week's episode!! Shouldn't Michael evacuating Dean's vessel have been more obvious? Sam was with Dean the whole time and should've seen something, right? I get WHY they did it that way -- so the audience would be surprised to learn that Rowena said yes -- but that has been bothering me since last week.

I agree with you that the Jack/Dean road trip felt forced and sort of lame. Dean being afraid of the snake was silly -- he wasn't afraid of it when it was ON THE COUNTER in the kitchen, but suddenly he's afraid of it when it's in the car? And their conversations felt stilted and unnatural. That whole segment didn't start making sense to me until they got to Donatello's house and Jack and Donny had their talk. I'm guessing that was the whole point and the rest of their road trip was just a device to get Jack and Donny together.

kate
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
6. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 15 2019, 9:10 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 15 2019, 9:10 AM EDT
I very much enjoyed the episode even though I am not thrilled with certain bits of it. I know that sounds conflicted, but bear with me:
Convenient Store clerk was adorable and not the usual idiot or stoner. I appreciated that.
Interesting case, but I agree with kate that we needed more info on how Major Creep did it all. Maybe something about how you had to be hurting and unhappy to fall under his influence or something. (That would have made sense with why it worked on Sam. Which brings another set of questions up. Previously Sam was immune to mind powers. Maybe because he had psychic powers himself? Does that mean now that those are well and truly gone? I always wondered if they would revive Sam’s abilities at some point.) And he mentions hearing voices before his power manifested….so what was that? Angels? Or just craziness? And when Cas says casually that he isn’t human…no reaction?
I totally fell for what the writers probably wanted us to believe at the beginning: that the milk shake , Sam tasted and Cas did not, had something in it that turned everyone into these weirdly old-fashioned characters. Then I thought maybe a Khan Worm or other parasite was using the town as a feeding ground by keeping everyone in this strange Stepford trance.
I didn’t mind being wrong about it, but the explanation that the major was a powerful psychic who just wanted to save the town and make everyone happy was a little too thin for me. And even more so, I didn’t like that the daughter was letting it all slide and played along. Were we supposed to believe that Conrad was the first “victim” who woke up and ran?
I did really appreciate all the detail that was put into making Charming Acres look and sound so perfectly stuck in the 50s !! Immediate creep factor. Including the music that reminded me of ELF.
Laughed out loud at Cas’ comment about “maybe they’re Mormon?” HAHAHA. Very astout.

More to come...

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
7. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 15 2019, 9:10 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 15 2019, 9:10 AM EDT
And I LOVED how Sam became Justin – nicely “Mr. Rogers” creepy – right down to the language and wardrobe (AND ponytail!! I really liked that!). I giggled through that whole bit and the funny interaction with Cas. Great scenes.
Cas and Misha were GREAT in this episode altogether!!! I loved Cas’ constant “put upon” demeanor like everyone around him was inept and annoying. He tried so hard to take care of everyone around him, seeing them hurt and struggling.
And then later he was so adorably out of his depth when Sam disappeared, and he had to investigate. Very well played and funnily written (“The tall man with the beautiful hair” HAHA). I also greatly appreciate that the writers allowed Cas the success of figuring it out and bringing a conclusion to the case. Including the kick-ass fight scene! Probably the best we have ever seen Cas fight in a purely physical way. And Misha looked good doing it when he normally looks more awkward. Must have been some long hours of choreography training (if it was mostly him?)!!!
Regarding Sam I am very happy that the writers gave us what I missed last week – a deeper trauma from having his “troops” killed on his watch! And I also really liked the parallels Cas drew between his own and Sam’s situation on failing as a leader and how giving up and loosing himself in this fake world would only mean he fails the people still counting on him. That was great insight on Cas’ part and a worthy way to draw Sam back out of Justin!!

The end of the episode was cleverly done as well with Dean making remarks to Sam that showed that Cas called Dean and gave him an update, and Sam being all exasperated about it! I loved that little bit, because it felt “brotherly” between the THREE of them.

More to come...

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
8. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 15 2019, 9:12 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 15 2019, 9:12 AM EDT
NOW, I am a bit confused by Dean’s behavior. He should be WAY more distraught over the AU-hunters deaths for the simple reason that he blames himself for having waited too long and/or let his guard down to allow Michael to escape. THAT would be typical Dean behavior. Instead he seems calm and collected and then avoids dealing with Jack himself? That bit was weird to me, too. He’s shown good intuition to handle Jack’s mindset before, why is he now trying to pass him off to Donatello for “soul counseling”.
I actually did like the exchange between Donatello and Jack – although, I still think that Donny is way too “shiny” and happy for a soulless person! – but I totally believe that this conversation could have been between Sam and Jack as Sam had the same experience to draw from. Or Dean and Jack as Dean can bring his own take on the situation.
Apparently, Dean believes he was crap at dealing with soulless Sam, but I disagree and I am sure so would Sam. Dean was awesome at pointing Sam’s nose at it when he was behaving “inhumane” or too robotic and when empathy or conscious was needed (“Clap Your Hands…” still one of my favorite episodes on that subject!). SO, I would have liked to see Dean apply that knowledge and experience to Jack now.
Btw the “test” of what Jack would choose between Angel Food and Devil Food Cake was LAME.
I agree again with kate as I also wondered why Cas didn’t at least OFFER to do a soul-onoscopy on Jack? It should have come up in conversation as an option and could then have been dismissed with an explanation on why it may not work.

MORE TO COME...

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
9. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 15 2019, 9:12 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 15 2019, 9:12 AM EDT
The only thing I can come up with for Dean’s behavior regarding Jack is that he (and the others) are VERY cautious and weary of his powers in connection with being possibly soulless. THAT I get and agree on! But it would have been an easy thing to give us a couple of lines of dialogue on that….
I am pretty sure Jack’s soul is mostly gone now (for one part apparent by his misguided attempt to make the snake happy and reunite her with her owner by killing it….) and that does make him into a ticking time bomb!
I have a bad feeling about this!


One ODD thing:
Why did the Boarding House owner have very modern set of earplugs and maybe an iPod in her apron pocket?

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
10. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 15 2019, 9:16 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 15 2019, 9:16 AM EDT
"Hi, JBB :)

I thought that, too -- about last week's episode!! Shouldn't Michael evacuating Dean's vessel have been more obvious? Sam was with Dean the whole time and should've seen something, right? I get WHY they did it that way -- so the audience would be surprised to learn that Rowena said yes -- but that has been bothering me since last week.

I agree with you that the Jack/Dean road trip felt forced and sort of lame. Dean being afraid of the snake was silly -- he wasn't afraid of it when it was ON THE COUNTER in the kitchen, but suddenly he's afraid of it when it's in the car? And their conversations felt stilted and unnatural. That whole segment didn't start making sense to me until they got to Donatello's house and Jack and Donny had their talk. I'm guessing that was the whole point and the rest of their road trip was just a device to get Jack and Donny together.

kate"
I agree with both of you that the road trip was painful to watch, BUT the more I think about it the more I think it was on purpose to show us that Dean is wary of Jack and what might happen next.
Now with that said I also believe that this could have been made clear to us in a million better ways and I wish they would have left Donatello out of this one completely....

pnp
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
11. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 15 2019, 9:18 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 15 2019, 9:18 AM EDT
"I did not like that one AT ALL. 2 out of 10 and it only gets two because of the one hilarious Cas line "God has a beard".

I hate that apparently Sam thinks he failed as a leader because the AU hunters are dead, Sam's a great leader! It was Michael! Not much he could do about that.

BTW...how did Michael leave Dean's body but still appear, disembodied, to Rowena in Dean's form in the last episode?

Anyway, this one was awful. Even Dean and Jack's road trip was lame and not interesting. The 50's humorous persona written for Jared fell totally flat. I still don't truly understand who or what the town mayor was.

All I learned was that Jack's all-powerful and different than he was. I wondered if his standard now is "what would the Winchesters do?" if he'll sacrifice himself for them somehow this season. Because that's what Sam and Dean would do.

But he killed the snake to give it a better life, he thought. The whole snake thing was weird. I think Jack can't discern right and wrong, so maybe he does not have a soul now. But he thinks he's doing good, but he may not be.

Yes, Kate, I thought the same that Jack may end up in the box. Even with Michael gone, I am sure we have not seen the last of that box. They spent too much time setting it up.

I hope to never see this one again. It's right up there (or, actually, down there) with Dog Dean Afternoon."
HA! So so funny to me how passionately we differ on our feelings about an episode sometimes.

I would give it a 5 out of 10. Not great and not awful.

But then I also enjoyed the Dean-Dog mindmelt in Dog Dean Afternoon. SORRY!

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
12. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 15 2019, 9:25 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 15 2019, 9:25 AM EDT
"That's one of my long-time criticisms of Jack. His logic is too absolute and he has extremely poor judgement. He likely thought he was doing the snake a favor by killing it (which he probably was, since he couldn’t even figure out how to feed it). I know this opinion is unpopular, but I’m gonna say it anyway. Jack's poor judgement has been a problem for a long time. The only time he's helpful as a weapon is when someone else (Mary, Cas, the Winchesters) tells him WHO the bad guy is, and points him in the right direction. Then, he goes all el-destructo and kills the monster. Unfortunately, Jack is an unpredictable grenade that’s just as likely to explode in your hand and kill you as it is to explode across the street and kill the bad guy. And now that he probably lost his soul, he has no moral center whatsoever, which makes him extremely dangerous for everybody – including those he’s supposed to care about. Theoretically, he may not care about anyone or anything anymore. There’s no way this can end well for him. I don’t think TFW will kill him, but they’ll have to bind him somehow. I see the Malak box in his future.

"
Hey kate,
stop saying that your opinion is unpopular! We are not about having to agree here. I LOVE the different views from everyone and the different reactions and opinions about characters and situations! This is what makes the show still great. It is provoking thoughts and discussions.

I actually totally agree with you here. Jack's poor judgement IS a major issue and makes him very very dangerous.
Where I disagree with you is that this makes the character uninteresting.

He is still very very young and forced to grow up rapidly and largely without guidance of someone really understanding his situation! That isn't his fault. It's a tough circumstance and in my opinion he has shown growth in being able to apply better judgement at times...

will continue...
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
13. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 15 2019, 9:37 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 15 2019, 9:37 AM EDT
"That's one of my long-time criticisms of Jack. His logic is too absolute and he has extremely poor judgement. He likely thought he was doing the snake a favor by killing it (which he probably was, since he couldn’t even figure out how to feed it). I know this opinion is unpopular, but I’m gonna say it anyway. Jack's poor judgement has been a problem for a long time. The only time he's helpful as a weapon is when someone else (Mary, Cas, the Winchesters) tells him WHO the bad guy is, and points him in the right direction. Then, he goes all el-destructo and kills the monster. Unfortunately, Jack is an unpredictable grenade that’s just as likely to explode in your hand and kill you as it is to explode across the street and kill the bad guy. And now that he probably lost his soul, he has no moral center whatsoever, which makes him extremely dangerous for everybody – including those he’s supposed to care about. Theoretically, he may not care about anyone or anything anymore. There’s no way this can end well for him. I don’t think TFW will kill him, but they’ll have to bind him somehow. I see the Malak box in his future.

[...continued...]"
Continues....
Jack makes mistakes and he slips and he struggles to fit in and be useful and he is passionate about it (both positively and negatively so) and then he feels remorse (until this episode at least)....these are all very human characteristics aside from the fact that he is NOT.

I don't think that the blame for his shortcomings can be placed solely with him, but that his "family" carries part of the blame.

They TRY to be there for him and guide him, but I think it is often colored with their fear over his abilities. And they partially enable him - like you said, he is a convenient weapon at times - to let lose and indulge in his powers.

It's a tough situation all around...but an interesting one, too.

PNP




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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
14. RE: Let's all talk about Peace of Mind (S14 E15) here!
Mar 16 2019, 3:57 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2019, 3:57 AM EDT
PNaP, I do agree with your assessment of Cas in this episode. He was the only character who seemed to behave authentically and I did enjoy his attempts to solve the case on his own and snap Sam out of it. Okay, that part was good.

I wondered about the iPod too and that made me wonder if the B&B owner was in on it.

I was not helped by my basic dislike/disinterest in the Donatello character.

I miss Jack's innocence already. I saw it coming, and Alex continues to do a great job as Jack looks like he's going to morph into something dangerous.

I'm disappointed how hard Sam took the AU hunter's deaths. It does not mean he's a bad leader. Yeah, true, odd that Dean didn't seem to care when he would usually blame himself for letting Michael out.
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