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Discussion: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!Reported This is a featured thread

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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 13 2018, 1:31 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2018, 1:31 PM EST
We have not seen Garth in a long time. I still don't like that he's a werewolf, but apparently he's out living his best werewolf life! Last we saw he was married; wonder if that'll still be the case? Anyway, Sam and Dean find him because, as a monster, I assume, he might know what Michael's "monster army" plans are and that's what Sam and Dean want to find out. And...AU Kaia and the spear return. It looks like we'll also have Cas and Jack. Do you find this valuable?    
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kate38
kate38
1. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 13 2018, 9:22 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2018, 9:26 PM EST
Wow! They left us with one HELL of a cliffhanger! At least they answered the question about why Michael left Dean so suddenly. Hopefully Dean will keep punching away in there like he did before. If Castiel can “annoy” his way out of the Empty, maybe Dean can annoy his way out of archangel possession :)

By the way, is anyone surprised that we didn’t SEE Michael transfer from the woman back into Dean? And did Michael really explain why Dean was having dizzy spells? I get that he left a window open a crack, but does that mean he had some sort of psychic tentacles still connecting them? He clearly wasn't reading Dean's thoughts, because he didn't know when they were coming for him. I was expecting more of an explanation.

Not a bad episode overall. They did advance the story, and they didn’t kill Garth, which they could easily have done. We also actually got to SEE Mr. Ketch! I know some of you guys don’t like him, but I do. I’m always grateful for any screen time David Haydn-Jones gets.

Just a few things to grumble about:

I think Dean should’ve talked Dark-Kaia into fighting WITH them instead of asking her to give up her spear. She’s MUCH better with it than they are, and she’s been the only one who was able to even HURT Michael in a fight (except for Jack, who doesn’t have his powers now). The Winchesters and Castiel have never been able to lay a hand on Michael. I think that fight would’ve gone very differently – and probably been more exciting -- if Dark-Kaia had been handling her own spear.

Minor point, but Sam misspoke when he said put Michael “back” in the cage. This Michael from the AU has never been in the cage.

Also, sorry to harp on Jack, but for every useful thing he does (like picking a lock) he does something else like getting captured – again. And poor Sam got knocked out again…sigh

[...continued...]
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kate38
kate38
2. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 13 2018, 9:23 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2018, 9:37 PM EST
[...continued...]

I get all the references to Die Hard (which is apparently one of Jensen’s favorite holiday movies -- it's one of mine, too!), but couldn’t we have an AC/DC fight song for the slow motion heroes walk? I also miss having a classic rock song playing during the episode recap. I do miss my classic rock!

Anyway, I thought this was a decent episode that did a great job of setting up the second part of the season. I'm looking forward to…

...Seeing how they're gonna deal with Garth. He's tied up in the trunk, but that can't last. It sounded like Michael has a psychic connection to his monsters, so maybe Garth can continue to be their "inside man"? Will they figure a way to cure him? They suggested that killing/binding Michael might release his hold on his monsters. I wonder if that's where they're going with this.

...Seeing HOW they’re gonna defeat Michael now with NO magic Easter egg and NO spear…

...Seeing what’s gonna happen with Dark-Kaia when she learns that they let Michael destroy her weapon. Will they be able to figure a way back into the AU for her? Can her spear be repaired/remade? If not, does she have other weapons over there that can hurt Michael? And will Jack return to his prior threat to KILL Dean if it means killing Michael??

...Watching what will happen when Dean and Sam learn about Cas' deal! Cas looked like he REALLY wanted to tell Dean, so I don't think he'll be able to keep it a secret for long. Who will spill the beans -- Cas or Jack? And what will the Winchesters do when they find out.

...Seeing some of the stuff we saw in the previews!!! Did I see Sam and Castiel standing in the Empty? How'd THAT happen? Who were they looking for? Does that mean they found out about Cas' deal?

LOTS to do, and only ten more episodes to get it done!

kate
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
3. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 13 2018, 10:39 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2018, 10:39 PM EST
Huh. Not sure what to think about this one except that they stripped 100% of Garth's lovely, quirky character.

Where'd the female host go?

In the preview, Sam and Cas were standing inside Dean's consciousness.

I miss the heart this show used to have. It's really become a flashy CW superhero production.

I am not sorry the ridiculous egg is gone. Second-goofiest weapon they've ever come up with...second only to Borax against leviathans.

Very good acting, but soulless story for me tonight.

I'm glad Jensen gets to be Michael again. The explanation of why Michael temporarily left was very weak though.

Nope, didn't love this one. I miss Garth acting like Garth...werewolf or not. And the super-monster teeth are just laughably ridiculous. ENOUGH with the homages! Like the slow-mo walk. If they'd just let Supernatural be Supernatural, other shows would pay homage to IT!

Wow, only 10 more episodes, huh? Not many.
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kate38
kate38
4. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 8:04 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 8:04 AM EST
Question: If Michael truly left Dean the first time, how did he get back in without Dean's consent? Maybe because he never really left? But then how did he possess the woman and Dean at the same time? Do you find this valuable?    
PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
5. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 9:45 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 9:45 AM EST
"Question: If Michael truly left Dean the first time, how did he get back in without Dean's consent? Maybe because he never really left? But then how did he possess the woman and Dean at the same time?"
That is the million dollar question, isn't it?
I guess, we are supposed to believe that "leaving the door a crack open" means that Michael can just come and go as he pleases?
OR does an archangel only need permission ONCE to use a vessel? Maybe they are different in that manner?
Do we know for sure that this is different for normal angels? Do they need permission each time before posessing a vessel?
We didn't have too many "re-possessions" did we - other than Cas?

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
6. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 10:08 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 10:08 AM EST
Hey Y'All,

overall I did enjoy this one a lot. Maybe I'm just a sucker for homages AND love Die Hard a lot as a Christmas Movie, so that part I actually loved (including the music)! Yes, I miss the Classic Rock as well, but here I thought the music was ok. My hubby supplied that they should have given female Michael a German accent to make the picture perfect. HA! NO, too much!

I actually found the explanation of why Michael left so suddenly intriguing! So, A) Dean made it uncomfortable for Michael (Hell yeah! Good on Dean!) B) Dean was "too attached" to Sam, Cas and Jack so C) he left and then waited because he wanted Dean "crushed and dissapointed"

OK, I think that last bit was crap! My take is that Michael knew that the spear could hurt him, but he was unable to get it from Kaya. So wouldn't it be convenient to let Dean go and figure that bit out and retrieve the spear FOR him? Michael must have known that Dean would set everything on trying to find him and kill him, most probably WITH Team Free Will in tow.....SO what better way to lure them all in and then take Dean back over and dispatch of the others? That would be just arrogant and calculating enough for Michael.
(Now, of course, we saw in the previews for the rest of the season that they get Michael into the cuffs and take him back to the bunker....which eases the cliffhanger tension a lot, but I wish they hadn't shown us that yet!)

I actually appreciated the fact that AU-Kaya was NOT convinced to fight WITH them. I think Dean understood the fact that she had no vested interest in their world and just wants to go home. With that attitude she would make an unreliable fight partner, so I get that Dean would have asked for the spear and not the extra help.

I very much enjoyed the female Michael and the actresses performance. She rode the edge between arrogance and power nicely for me.

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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
7. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 10:18 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 10:18 AM EST
I was also VERY excited to have Garth back, BUT I agree with JBB that this was not good ole quirky Garth! I can understand that he was in a super tense situation and that could account for a little of his missing charm, but they could have left us a few nuggets of typical Garth-like comments ! SIGH.
However....he isn't DEAD - YAY! So maybe we get old Garth back in an upcoming episode.

I sure hope they find a way/spell to "cure" all of Michael's super army of the additional monsterness. Wouldn't it be awesome, if destroying Michael would cause the monster traits to vanish in the effected people - I mean completely? Or at least turn the army back into regular monsters? Although, that would still be a LOT of monsters the hunters would have to take care off after Michael is laid low. Somehow they will have to solve this.


Good to see Ketch! I was NOT a fan of him coming back on the show, but if he is of occasional help and at a distance....I can deal.

Glad the egg melted. HA, that was corny the first time around....and I really want them to be done with the BMoL stuff and help.

I continue to love Jack, BUT I have to say that he'll better pick up SOME usable skill quick or his tagging along and being knocked out will get a little old.

Still, mostly satisfying episode and a great set up for things to come...

PNP

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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
8. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 10:22 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 10:22 AM EST
"
...Seeing how they're gonna deal with Garth. He's tied up in the trunk, but that can't last. It sounded like Michael has a psychic connection to his monsters, so maybe Garth can continue to be their "inside man"? Will they figure a way to cure him? They suggested that killing/binding Michael might release his hold on his monsters. I wonder if that's where they're going with this.


kate
"

OOOPS, sorry, just saw you saying the same I did...

I would expect that killing/banishing Michael would release at least the ADDITIONAL jus-jus?

Otherwise the hunters have a hell of a mess on their hands trying to get rid of his army.


PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
9. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 10:24 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 10:24 AM EST
Oh, forgot to mention:
I DO love how Jensen portrays Michael. He was masterful again at it last night. Very eerie and dangerous vibe!

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
10. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 10:27 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 10:27 AM EST
"
...Watching what will happen when Dean and Sam learn about Cas' deal! Cas looked like he REALLY wanted to tell Dean, so I don't think he'll be able to keep it a secret for long. Who will spill the beans -- Cas or Jack? And what will the Winchesters do when they find out.

...Seeing some of the stuff we saw in the previews!!! Did I see Sam and Castiel standing in the Empty? How'd THAT happen? Who were they looking for? Does that mean they found out about Cas' deal?

LOTS to do, and only ten more episodes to get it done!

kate
"
Hi Kate,

hey at least in the current state of things it doesn't look that Cas will be happy any time soon!!! SO, hopefully, Sam and Dean don't have to deal with THAT very soon. Maybe Cas "dying" will be the overall season cliffhanger.

I understood that DARK place in the previews to be Dean's mind! Sam and Cas going into Michael/Dean to try and find Dean and get him "unburried"?

PNP
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kate38
kate38
11. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 12:11 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 12:38 PM EST
"Hey Y'All,
...

I actually appreciated the fact that AU-Kaya was NOT convinced to fight WITH them. I think Dean understood the fact that she had no vested interest in their world and just wants to go home. With that attitude she would make an unreliable fight partner, so I get that Dean would have asked for the spear and not the extra help.


"
Hey, PNP :)

Good point, but SHE has a gripe with Michael, too. Michael hurt her and has been relentlessly sending his goons after her since she landed here. It's in her best interests to kill Michael, too. And she seems to like holding grudges. It wouldn't have been that hard for Dean to convince her that they have a common enemy and once Michael was dead, they could part ways. The Winchesters have fought many times with people/monsters they can't actually trust. This wouldn't have been new.

I was also surprised that she gave up the only weapon she had to protect herself. Maybe she has other weapons we haven't seen, but with her being such a warrior, I never thought she'd leave herself defenseless (or at least significantly diminished).

I had my doubts that Dean would be able to handle the spear, and after that little demonstration in the parking garage, I knew for sure things were gonna go badly.

Sigh...now Kaia has NO spear and she's still stuck here without a way to get back to the AU. Maybe the writers are setting it up so Kaia will have to come to Sam and Castiel for help?

kate
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kate38
kate38
12. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 12:41 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 12:41 PM EST
"I was also VERY excited to have Garth back, BUT I agree with JBB that this was not good ole quirky Garth! I can understand that he was in a super tense situation and that could account for a little of his missing charm, but they could have left us a few nuggets of typical Garth-like comments ! SIGH.
However....he isn't DEAD - YAY! So maybe we get old Garth back in an upcoming episode.

PNP

"
I did notice that, but I guess it didn't bother me. He did say "Balls!" once, so maybe that was enough for me.

kate
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
13. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 4:33 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 4:33 PM EST
"Hey, PNP :)

Good point, but SHE has a gripe with Michael, too. Michael hurt her and has been relentlessly sending his goons after her since she landed here. It's in her best interests to kill Michael, too. And she seems to like holding grudges. It wouldn't have been that hard for Dean to convince her that they have a common enemy and once Michael was dead, they could part ways. The Winchesters have fought many times with people/monsters they can't actually trust. This wouldn't have been new.

I was also surprised that she gave up the only weapon she had to protect herself. Maybe she has other weapons we haven't seen, but with her being such a warrior, I never thought she'd leave herself defenseless (or at least significantly diminished).

I had my doubts that Dean would be able to handle the spear, and after that little demonstration in the parking garage, I knew for sure things were gonna go badly.

Sigh...now Kaia has NO spear and she's still stuck here without a way to get back to the AU. Maybe the writers are setting it up so Kaia will have to come to Sam and Castiel for help?

kate"
I hear you, kate, of course, if would have been the smart thing to do to get Kaya to help them.
I have the feeling that Dean felt so confident about his chances at that particular moment (when spear, egg and inside man would have added up to a nice advantage) AND he was eager to get it over with that "smart and cautious" kinda flew out the window.

And herein lies another gripe of mine: I know they are somewhat on a clock and want to avoid that Michael's army grows even further, but when they knew they didn't have the inside man anymore and the egg had melted, if was pretty foolish not to hang back and maybe regroup.

Maybe Kaya is being set up to STAY in the SPN world and hook up with the ladies, like real Kaya did?

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
14. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 14 2018, 4:35 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2018, 4:35 PM EST
"I did notice that, but I guess it didn't bother me. He did say "Balls!" once, so maybe that was enough for me.

kate"
OK - let's chalk it up to the fact that he was under enormous stress and wanted to appear confident and worthy!
After all they did remark on him being scrawny, maybe if he'd been goofy, too, he was worried not be good MM material

PNP
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
15. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 19 2018, 1:27 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 19 2018, 1:27 PM EST
As far as archangel permission, I always thought that...you say yes once, that's it. I always thought that once Sam said "yes" to Lucifer, he could likely have him whenever he wanted, but the show didn't really do it that way.
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
16. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 19 2018, 1:32 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 19 2018, 1:32 PM EST
Perhaps I'm at a deficit having watched DJ Qualls as his character on ZNation...which is pretty much EXACTLY what he was on our show this time! To me, not much "Garth" there and I love Garth so I was really disappointed in that.

I thought both Jensen and the female actress did a GREAT job with Michael! Can't wait to see more Dean/Michael.
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kate38
kate38
17. RE: Let's all talk about "The Spear" (S14 E9) HERE!
Dec 20 2018, 7:11 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 20 2018, 7:13 PM EST
"As far as archangel permission, I always thought that...you say yes once, that's it. I always thought that once Sam said "yes" to Lucifer, he could likely have him whenever he wanted, but the show didn't really do it that way.
"
This is just my theory, but I think it has to do with HOW the angel leaves the vessel.

In "Free to be you and me" we saw Raphael's former vessel incoherent and in a wheelchair, but somehow Raphael was able to later re-possess a vessel who couldn't possibly communicate or give consent. I think that was because Raphael "left" the vessel voluntarily and wasn't expelled.

Sam, in contrast, rejected Lucifer when he grappled with him, took control of the vessel, and jumped them both into the cage. I think that was why Lucifer had to convince Sam to say yes in "Oh Brother, where art thou" and "Devil in the Details". Otherwise, Lucifer would've been able to simply repossess Sam without consent.

In Dean's case, Michael left him voluntarily, so technically Dean's consent wasn't withdrawn. Using that logic, Michael was able to take control of his vessel again.

I'm sure there are many other theories and possibilities, but this is what I'm going with for now :)

kate
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