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Discussion: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!Reported This is a featured thread

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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 7 2018, 6:08 PM EST | Post edited: Mar 7 2018, 6:08 PM EST
It's time to go shopping for dimension-doorway-opening ingredients! Too bad they can't find them at the local grocery store. Sounds like Sam and Dean are going to have to deal with some shady characters to get what they want. At least this one may have a rather tight focus for the story. I tend to like those. Written by the bigwigs (Dabb and Singer) and directed by our favorite shifty dead angel Amanda Tapping! :) Do you find this valuable?    
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kate38
kate38
1. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 8 2018, 7:42 PM EST | Post edited: Mar 8 2018, 7:42 PM EST
I'm SO excited about this episode! Andrew Dabb and Bob Singer said that they wrote it as a sort of homage to 1940's film noir. The photography and lighting on this show are always SO amazing, I'm sure they're gonna have fun with this! I have high hopes :)
kate
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kate38
kate38
2. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 8 2018, 9:36 PM EST | Post edited: Mar 8 2018, 9:40 PM EST
I need to rewatch, but I I REALLY liked this one! Dabb and Singer kept it light and fun, while still giving a decent nod to 1940s spy movie merged with a gangster film. And as always the lighting and photography were amazing!!! I like the long shot when the Boys are walking in an alley beside the hotel and the police cars are behind them. SO eerie, and well done!

LOVED the humor –the Dean one-liners, Dean’s joke (FINALLY) about how often Sam getting knocked out and his Disney princess hair, Sam’s joking about “You can feel it”! The humor kept me smiling!

By the way, it took them a REALLY long time to figure out that the priest was the holy man. Hubby and I figured that one out as soon as he got knocked out and we saw him mopping his forehead with his handkerchief.Oh well...

I liked the fact that this episode kept me guessing – besides the priest, I didn’t know who was telling the truth until the very end. And I initially thought the priest picked Sam’s pocket when they bumped into each other outside the elevator. It was SUCH fun figuring out who was who.

By the way, I’m pretty sure the short, stocky thug working for Margaret was the owner of the strip club in “Sex and Violence”. I never get tired of these cameos from past seasons :)

On a serious note, I loved the underlying message from the priest. The world is far from perfect, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t all try to do our part to make it better. Amen to that. Sam seemed to take it to heart, so I suspect we'll see that theme addressed again later this season.

The only thing that bugged me was creepy Margaret objectifying Sam.To me, that was trite and not funny at all. It was almost as creepy as the rich ladies in “Ask Jeeves”. Anyway, I didn’t trust her from the very beginning, and I'm sorta glad she got shot.

Anyway, I had fun with this one :)

kate
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
3. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 8 2018, 9:47 PM EST | Post edited: Mar 8 2018, 9:47 PM EST
"I'm SO excited about this episode! Andrew Dabb and Bob Singer said that they wrote it as a sort of homage to 1940's film noir. The photography and lighting on this show are always SO amazing, I'm sure they're gonna have fun with this! I have high hopes :)
kate"
Hey Kate,

You NAILED it - beautifully shot, lit, orchestrated, costumed. Even the story was nicely convoluted and twisted with lots of villains and very few decent people. I think I would have enjoyed all of these aspect even more, if it had been in black and white!!!
So, all that was great....BUT.....to me if wasn't a SPN episode. The guys were tools, that's it. They weren't even really necessary in the story. On top of that they seemed dummned down to me. And the moral dilemma was forced as was the overly long conversation about "good men do good things" with the priest .

There were a few good Sam and Dean moments - like Dean getting incensed over the thought of baby being stolen - but in the end they were completely secondary to the story....so why waste the time?

I am glad they at least got the first ingredient for the spell, but overall it was a throw away for me.

PNP
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
4. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 9 2018, 10:38 AM EST | Post edited: Mar 9 2018, 10:38 AM EST

I COMPLETELY HATED IT!!!!!

One of the most forgettable episodes of this season for me.

I hate it when they try to make Supernatural something it isn't. I KNOW this was an homage to gangster movies (they bludgeoned us over the head with the, as PigNaPoke said, Maltese Falcon music in case we were too stupid to realize what they were trying to do). But they've done this more successfully already in Time After Time. This one was full of cartoonish caricatures...effeminite fat rich guy, stereotypical gangsters, rich woman with way too much makeup. I guessed the stupid twist right away (the priest was the true holy man whose blood they needed).

The "creative" parts were direct copies of other genres (the slow-mo shootout with church music).

It was laughable that we were supposed to believe that Dean was surprised that there was an online auction for holy relics...um...FRENCH MISTAKE! It makes them look stupid.

Sam getting knocked out again makes HIM look stupid.

I don't like it when they look stupid.

I didn't even "feel" the brother talk at the end. I can't believe that Dean suddenly has faith. That the time with the priest (who WAS a like-able character) affected Dean at all. I didn't even believe that, at this point, Sam would even start to hope that they might be able to kill every monster (????).

I was most disgusted that this was written by Andrew Dabb and Robert Singer. They seem determined to take this show away from what made it so great and turn it into another slick CW product.

Yes, Kate, Margaret was VERY "Ask Jeeves" which I also HATED at the time. Hated her as well. Caricature. Lazy writing.

PigNaPoke....YES on all of your criticisms and NO on the stuff you found positive. :)

This one was SO not my thing.


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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
5. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 9 2018, 10:39 AM EST | Post edited: Mar 9 2018, 10:39 AM EST
Let Supernatural be the beautiful, very original thing it can be. Not a pale and poor imitation of other genres.

Sam and Dean were the main focus here, and yet somehow Dabb and Singer managed to take most of the emotion out and make them secondary.

A total waste for me.
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
6. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 9 2018, 11:18 AM EST | Post edited: Mar 9 2018, 11:18 AM EST
"
PigNaPoke....YES on all of your criticisms and NO on the stuff you found positive. :)

This one was SO not my thing.


"
WOW, JBB, give it to me straight! HAHAHA.

I did not find it POSITIVE for a SPN episode!! Just as general TV work. It was well done overall - only imo and as a homage to old Film Noir which was FULL of silly stereotypes and bad dialogue.

As SPN episode it was a waste of time and self-indulgent on the part of the show runners!

Your argument that Dabb/Singer are trying to turn SPN into another slick piece of CW crap doesn't even fly this time, because THIS was not it. And I doubt the younger audience, which most of the CW programming is geared towards (let's face it SPN is an anomaly in its audience base) has probably barely heard of Film Noir and most likely never watched one of the old gangster movies this was trying to imitate....

Hence my feeling of "Throw Away" ep!

This MAY have been more effective as a time travel episode, because all the characters were clearly "old fashioned" in their stereotypical behavior and look. But then you said it already, they have done this WAY better already in Time After Time and other episodes, so why go there again.

SIGH!!!

At least next ep is Scooby-Doo, which I am REALLY looking forward to - but I know JBB dreds like the PLAGUE!!! Sorry, JBB! Maybe it'll surprise you??

PNP
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
7. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 9 2018, 5:27 PM EST | Post edited: Mar 10 2018, 1:14 AM EST
True that the CW "target audience" probably wouldn't know what they were trying to do here (such an old style of TV/movie). I still don't like the (and haven't for years) lighter/generally brighter, generally more stereotypical and slick direction the show runners in recent years have taken the show. I hope ScoobyNatural totally surprises me! I hope I like it.
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
8. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 10 2018, 1:26 PM EST | Post edited: Mar 10 2018, 1:26 PM EST
I did watch it again last night and unfortunately it didn't gain any positive points for me at all. It actually was almost uncomfortable to watch in certain parts because it didn't feel like a SPN episode or even much like our beloved characters Sam and Dean.

The dialogue was mostly bland or stilted and didn't convey any real feelings. Even the last scene at the bunker just felt odd and out of place and non-sensical to me.

Hate to say it, but I think I won't rewatch this one....ever....there is just no need - no news, no revelations, no heartfelt important course changing moments....waste of time.

SIGH!

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
9. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 10 2018, 1:40 PM EST | Post edited: Mar 10 2018, 1:40 PM EST
"True that the CW "target audience" probably wouldn't know what they were trying to do here (such an old style of TV/movie). I still don't like the (and haven't for years) lighter/generally brighter, generally more stereotypical and slick direction the show runners in recent years have taken the show. I hope ScoobyNatural totally surprises me! I hope I like it.
"
Hi JBB,

I can't say that I agree with your observation - or at least not in general. There are certainly episodes that were brighter and more slick looking, but there have been equally many episodes that were nicely dark and gritty and so the balance between the two hasn't turned me off.

I think what dictates the look for any particular episode has more to do with the director and the subject matter of the episode than with the show runners or even the writers.

I do agree that the general taste of the CW target audience seems to prefer more comic-book-sleek-looking shows, but I still think that our show is keeping MOSTLY to its original art concept.

I, too, cringe sometimes when something just seems weirdly off (like lately the hotel rooms have become less grungy).

But maybe I am just blind to the change?

PNP
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kate38
kate38
10. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 10 2018, 7:11 PM EST | Post edited: Mar 10 2018, 7:18 PM EST
"I, too, cringe sometimes when something just seems weirdly off (like lately the hotel rooms have become less grungy).

But maybe I am just blind to the change?

PNP"
Very interesting observation, PNP!
I've noticed those occurrences, too. I don't cringe, but I DO find myself making excuses for why certain choices were made.

Part of me thinks it's simple math. Things that worked for characters in their 20's would be too pathetic for characters approaching 40, so the show's writers, set designers, wardrobe folks, etc. have stepped up the Boys' lives to keep pace with the characters' development.

You brought up the example of the hotel rooms, which are DECIDEDLY less seedy than before. Some of the hotels have even been "nice". And they never squat in abandoned buildings anymore, which would probably be pathetic at their age. (Plus, they HAVE saved the universe a few times, so they deserve better accommodations in it.:)

When they do steal cars these days, they seem to steal nicer cars. It was a running joke for a long time that Sam (in particular) stole ugly cars, but he's stepped up his game.

And someone recently mentioned their suits, which are definitely nicer than they have been in the past.

They also never talk about credit card fraud anymore, and the last time Dean hustled pool (in "Inside Man") it seemed to be just for fun and not because he really needed the money. So although they're not "rich", they don't seem worried about money.

Now that they're in the bunker and have access to antiques they can sell if needed, I just tell myself that their lives are less hand-to-mouth now.

So, I agree with you. But I guess I've just chalked this up to poetic license and the show's attempts to keep our heroes blue collar, but stop them from going too far.

kate
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
11. RE: Let's all talk about "A Most Holy Man" (S13, E15) HERE!
Mar 11 2018, 5:59 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 11 2018, 5:59 PM EDT
Hi Kate,

some of the nicer hotels in Season 12 I chalked up to them hunting a few times with Mary. So, I can forgive them not wanting to expose mom to the regular class of crap motel. :)

I long noticed the increased quality of their suits as well, but I totally forgive that on the account of....well, you know...eye candy for us. LOL. However, I did think to myself a few times that I doubt Sam and Dean would have such good taste in suits and tone-in-tone shirt and ties.....but then, maybe Crowley rubbed off on them over time?

And yes, they seem to worry less about money and we haven't seen them hustle pool or commit credit card fraud for a while now.

I love your theory that they can sell off antiques from the bunker here or there to create cash flow. I still like to think (totally, my head canon) that they might have stumbled on a stash of cash in the bunker or discovered some long forgotten MoL bank account that can provide for them. :)

Whatever the case, I don't mind THAT aspect at all as you are completely right - they deserve a better life style.

Whatever it might be, I am not begrudging them overall changes or creature comforts, but there have been instances where it seemed out of character for Sam and Dean to chose certain things. I'll come up with an example....just slipped my mind at the moment. And those are the ones, that bother me.

PNP
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