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Discussion: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here!

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journalbookbinder	Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 22 2017, 11:59 AM EST It's a new Supernatural on Thanksgiving! No secret that this is my least-favorite writing team on this one. Yuck. They tend to have too many characters and too many story lines going on at once in their episodes and this one looks like no exception, but I'll try no to throw them under the bus before I even watch it! Sam and Dean are out looking for Jack. Asmodeus is out looking for Jack. Lucifer is looking for an ally in the AU. Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: None
kate38	1. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 23 2017, 9:28 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 24 2017, 9:14 AM EST WOW!! Lots of surprises in this one!!! I have to say I was done with Kevin, so I’m not over the moon to see him back. But Mr. Ketch was a much more interesting character to me, so I’m glad to see David Haydn-Jones again. And Ruth Connell has already confirmed that she’ll be back, so we’ll see Rowena again soon, so YAY about that!!!!! But now Ketch is working for Asmodeus! YIKES!! THAT can’t possibly end well. Pretty good ruse he had going there for a bit. I’m SO glad Dean was smart enough to see through it. That's my hero!!! Not that I like or miss Mary, but where is she? And why didn’t Castiel ask where Mary is? Wouldn't that have been one of the first things he'd want to know as soon as he saw Luci? I get that Cas died without ever knowing that Mary got pulled into the rift. Even so, the Winchesters must have told him what happened to her, so why didn’t he ask Luci where she is? Something is clearly off with him. I’m still not convinced it’s Cas to begin with. Michael seems like a real monster. He’s got some interesting powers, too -- like the mind reading thing he did to Luci. You know he’s eventually going to find a way through the rift. But what then? He stripped Luci of much of his power, so there can’t be an Armageddon battle. What does he want once he gets here? I’m sure it won’t be good for us. By the way, it’s a strange day when Lucifer is the voice of reason! Now that he’s powered down, it’ll be interesting to see how he handles things. And if Kevin’s spell only lets one person through the rift at a time, there’s nothing stopping Michael from using some of his OWN grace to work the spell again. Of course, his power will be limited when he gets here, but I get the feeling he can still be a terrible bad guy even without all his powers. [...continued...] Post reply Do you find this valuable?
kate38	2. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 23 2017, 9:29 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 24 2017, 4:18 PM EST [...continued...] The angels have a good point; a lot of them HAVE been killed. And with Chuck on vacation, they need to replenish their numbers. However, it seems presumptive to think that a nephilim, which is considered an abomination by the angels, can (and WILL) create new angels. And if he’s more powerful than they are – more powerful than even an archangel -- how do they think they can compel him to work for them? I don’t really get that part. By the way, did you guys recognize the bartender from “The Man Who Knew Too Much” and the nanny from “Plucky Pennywhistle’s…”? They were both angels :). Jack must be doing an excellent job of cloaking himself. Nobody can sense his power. A few questions: Why would an iron maiden (made of simple iron) hurt an archangel? I didn’t see any warding on the cage. I don’t get that. How did Luci recognize Kevin Tran? Had they ever met in the real world? I’m pretty sure Luci was in the cage until after Kevin died, so how would Luci recognize him? I know the angels have the names of all the prophets inscribed in their brains, so maybe the archangels do, too. But would he know what Kevin looked like? What did Asmodeus sense that temporarily weakened him? He said it wasn’t Jack. Was it the opening of the rift??? Whatever it was made him smile. Next week looks a little silly, but I will keep an open mind! kate Post reply Do you find this valuable?
journalbookbinder	3. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 23 2017, 11:23 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 23 2017, 11:24 PM EST Before I read other comments... I have to say that Brad and Eugenie have one extraordinary talent as writers: THEY SUCK ALL EMOTION OUT OF AN EPISODE AND WRITE THE DUMBEST, WORST EPISODES OF THE SEASON! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
journalbookbinder	4. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 23 2017, 11:27 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 23 2017, 11:32 PM EST I was so excited about Jack because he was NEW. Kevin???? 'Effin' KETCH with some stupid, convoluted backstory about Rowena??? Could the writers PLEASE have just ONE freakin' original thought in their heads? The answer is "no". So disappointed and disgusted by this episode. I don't know if I care to comment any further. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
journalbookbinder	7. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 24 2017, 1:16 AM EST I want to express sincere appreciation for this site and the discussions we have here. Tonight, I was blocked on Twitter by a fellow fan I've followed for years and whose comments I really enjoy. She loved tonight's episode. I replied that I felt the complete opposite and thought it was the worst episode of the season. She replied with, "No one asked you" and blocked me. I'm so glad we have REAL discussions here. It's truly a rare thing. Thank you all for that. Perhaps tomorrow I'll have some coherent comments about tonight's episode. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
journalbookbinder	8. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 24 2017, 9:25 AM EST \| Post edited: Nov 24 2017, 9:55 AM EST Okay, I was so mad over this one last night, I couldn't see straight. Now I've had a little time to think about it. I'm glad you found this one interesting, Kate, but I just felt it was so far outside of the realm of anything that added to this season's story in any kind of positive way; all it did was detract from what they seem to be trying to build. Here's why: When Mary killed Ketch at the end of season 12, though I was not a fan of the BMOL storyline or the fact that Mary was brought back, that said, the whole season 12 built to this crescendo where Sam and Dean and Mary and Jody had to go after and neutralize the BMOL. It was a big deal when Mary shot Ketch in the head. Bringing him back just sucks all the importance and drama out of that moment! And the backstory as to why he was back was so tortured and convoluted...it's like they decided they liked the actor and had to find any way to bring him back even if it made zero sense. Also, now people other than Jack can open the rift? This, to me, completely diminishes the importance/special-ness of Jack! I would have liked it better if he were the only one who could open it. That makes sense and shows how powerful he is above all others. AU Kevin can open it with a lame little spell? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
journalbookbinder	9. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 24 2017, 10:02 AM EST Kate, I too hoped to see Mary last night if we were taking a trip to the AU...I was disappointed she wasn't there. If she's not with Lucifer (and he acted like he was going to hold her captive because she could be useful to him), where is she? What's she doing? Good point that Cas should have immediately asked Lucifer where Mary was. I agree. I also thought it was weird that the angels though at Nephilim could and would replenish their ranks. That little tidbit seemed to come out of left field (that a Nephilim can do that and that's their plan for Jack). I didn't quite get that either. Good point about Lucifer recognizing Kevin Tran. How is that possible? These are the details that bug the hell out of me! I thought Asmodeus stumbled a bit when the rift opened. I think he smiled because he is looking forward to a showdown with Lucifer in order to be the winner. Next week's does look goofy; an SPN take on an Ocean's 11 heist. Sometimes they surprise me and when the promos look bad, the episode is good. I'll hope for that, but worry that when they imitate something so closely, unless they are making fun of it in an ironic way (that style of movie), it comes off as Sam and Dean working with a bunch of caricature/stereotype characters. Fingers crossed. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
kate38	10. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 24 2017, 12:53 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 24 2017, 1:06 PM EST "Also, now people other than Jack can open the rift? This, to me, completely diminishes the importance/special-ness of Jack! I would have liked it better if he were the only one who could open it. That makes sense and shows how powerful he is above all others. " Hey, JBB :) Good point about the rift. I admit being surprised that Luci was able to escape the AU so easily. At first, it looked like he and Mary would have to reluctantly work together to survive in the AU AND to eventually escape, and that Jack was the only one who could free them. So, now we have no idea where Mary is, and Luci is free? I'm wondering if that was a story change they had to make for some logistical reason. Maybe Samantha Smith wasn't available when they needed her, so they had to rethink that plot line. Then again, I was also surprised that Cas escaped the Empty so easily (assuming that he truly did). At first, Billie told us that nobody returns from the Empty. But now if you're annoying enough and you refuse to go back to sleep (like a petulant toddler), you can be evicted. I still don't buy that, but I'm surprised that the story is trying to take us there. It did make sense that since Jack opened the rift the first time, he's the logical one to open it again, but it doesn't diminish his powers to me. In this show, there always seems to be "another way" -- a back door/stairway to hell, a way to sneak into purgatory, etc. so I'm not too surprised about Kevin's loophole. Also, If Jack is the only one besides Chuck who can make new angels, that's a HUGE deal! I mean, all our archangels are dead, so if Jack can replenish the angels' ranks and give us new archangels, that could have far-reaching implications and speak to his power. I like the fact that we have no idea what Jack can do, and now we don't know whose side he'll play on. Wildcard! kate Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PigNaPoke	11. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 24 2017, 7:19 PM EST "WOW!! Lots of surprises in this one!!! Michael seems like a real monster. He’s got some interesting powers, too -- like the mind reading thing he did to Luci. You know he’s eventually going to find a way through the rift. But what then? He stripped Luci of much of his power, so there can’t be an Armageddon battle. What does he want once he gets here? I’m sure it won’t be good for us. By the way, it’s a strange day when Lucifer is the voice of reason! Now that he’s powered down, it’ll be interesting to see how he handles things. And if Kevin’s spell only lets one person through the rift at a time, there’s nothing stopping Michael from using some of his OWN grace to work the spell again. Of course, his power will be limited when he gets here, but I get the feeling he can still be a terrible bad guy even without all his powers. [...continued...]" Hi Kate, you can say that again.... WOW... soooo many new plot lines. My head was swimming and it took me a rewatch to at least partially appreciate the episode. I was't thrilled, but more to that later. On your point about Michael: I do find the role reversal interesting that AU Michael is a real opportunist and the bad guy. I am a little taken aback by the fact that if he won (the Apocalypse fight) in the AU and therefore fulfilled his duty to God, that he now can't get enough and needs to conquer the next world?! What's that all about? He did seem reluctant to use his own grace for the spell - as per Kevin - and I would guess that it is because he fears it weakens him, which leaves him in no good place to take over the real world?? Let's hope that keeps being the case. PNP Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PigNaPoke	12. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 24 2017, 7:25 PM EST "[...continued...] The angels have a good point; a lot of them HAVE been killed. And with Chuck on vacation, they need to replenish their numbers. However, it seems presumptive to think that a nephilim, which is considered an abomination by the angels, can (and WILL) create new angels. And if he’s more powerful than they are – more powerful than even an archangel -- how do they think they can compel him to work for them? I don’t really get that part. By the way, did you guys recognize the bartender from “The Man Who Knew Too Much” and the nanny from “Plucky Pennywhistle’s…”? They were both angels :). Jack must be doing an excellent job of cloaking himself. Nobody can sense his power. kate" Hi Kate, I had a REAL problem with the angel logic!!! Weren't we meant to believe that the nephilim is an abomination in all angel's eyes and need to be dealt with? Why else was the squad from the first episode out to kill Jack? NOW all of a sudden they say "he belongs to all"?? And continue to tell Cas that Jack isn't his pet? BUT they want him as a brood stud (or whatever you need to make angels)?? Totally not ok with that. And as you said, WHY would Jack help now? GOOD CATCH on the repeat actresses! Jack and Jesse (the Antichrist kid) both seem to have cloaking power. Someone suggested they might hang out together in Australia. HA! PNP Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PigNaPoke	13. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 24 2017, 7:33 PM EST "Okay, I was so mad over this one last night, I couldn't see straight. Now I've had a little time to think about it. I'm glad you found this one interesting, Kate, but I just felt it was so far outside of the realm of anything that added to this season's story in any kind of positive way; all it did was detract from what they seem to be trying to build. Here's why: When Mary killed Ketch at the end of season 12, though I was not a fan of the BMOL storyline or the fact that Mary was brought back, that said, the whole season 12 built to this crescendo where Sam and Dean and Mary and Jody had to go after and neutralize the BMOL. It was a big deal when Mary shot Ketch in the head. Bringing him back just sucks all the importance and drama out of that moment! And the backstory as to why he was back was so tortured and convoluted...it's like they decided they liked the actor and had to find any way to bring him back even if it made zero sense. " Hi JBB, I do agree with you on that!!! I am not crazy about Ketch being back either. Mostly with the way they presented it...the whole soap opera approach of trying to confuse us with the evil twin routine was LAME and boring. (Thank the Gods, the Boys didn't fall for it one bit!). However, I do allow that it could be interesting to see how Ketch ultimately chooses sides, IF he does. I was surprised about the remark that the Boys dumped Ketch's body in a canal....I would have expected them to burn him, just in case...that seemed uncharacteristically sloppy and like a forced explanation from the writers. The whole mojo bag idea was a bit far fetched as well for me. And if Ketch knew Rowena, why didn't he try to get with her last season at some point? Force her to help for example? PNP Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PigNaPoke	14. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 24 2017, 7:44 PM EST OK - so, yeah, at first watch I was mostly displeased and confused and thought that there were WAY too many holes in the plot. Parts were so convoluted that they became boring to me. I didn't like the version of Kevin presented to us in AU at all. To me he was totally wasted here as the slightly Looney brainiac. Regular Kevin had a wonderful growth and nice full arc during his run on the show. I didn't need to see a cartooney version of him now... I sure hope this wasn't it for him? IF they give him a more important role in the AU (maybe a way to help the Winchesters? Help Mary escape the AU?) I could see potential in his return....so here is hoping that he'll get additional time to reclaim his character. And I don't mind Asmodeus. He sits well with me as the new villain, BUT did he really had to kidnap and torture a motel clerk himself to get answers??? There are no other, more prince-of-hell-like methods???? Abadon could simply smoke in and out to get info! Asmodeus is supposed to be more powerful than that, right? Anyhow, that whole scene was stupid! PNP Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PigNaPoke	15. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 24 2017, 7:53 PM EST Now what I DID like: The directing by Richard Speight Jr. was VERY nice! Some great shots and layering of visuals there. LOVED the bar scene and the BIG fight! That was some impressing brawling and kick a** choreography. Great action on all parts. (I did have to think about the "bungee cord" comment from "The Real Ghostbusters" episode, though, as much as they lost all their weapons again! HA!) I also appreciated the Cas against three angel chicks fight! Misha looked much better than in fights previous and Cas held his own pretty well. There was lots of good dialogue in the episode - especially between Sam and Dean - that felt "true" to character and was enjoyable to watch. I am super glad that Dean didn't hesitate to shoot at Ketch as he was making his escape! (Btw - Ketch tore out of the bar and on the bike onto the street....but he had time to put his helmet on??? HAHAHA) And Sam is very consistent in trying to see the positive and give people a chance, but I am worried that this will lead him to big disappointment later. I am on the fence about Lucifer....well, of course, I don't believe for a NY minute that he is actually the good guy now...but I find watching a new side of him (vulnerable and out of his element) mildly interesting....I am just not sure that there is much left to explore with him. I will try to keep an open mind. In the end, as I often find with Brad/Eugenie episodes, there was WAY too much new info and plot cramped in and nothing was fully flushed out, which then leaves me often a little dissatisfied overall, because all we catch is glimpses of new possibilities. So for me...this wasn't awful, but not great either. A 5 out of 10. PNP Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PigNaPoke	16. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 24 2017, 7:59 PM EST "I want to express sincere appreciation for this site and the discussions we have here. Tonight, I was blocked on Twitter by a fellow fan I've followed for years and whose comments I really enjoy. She loved tonight's episode. I replied that I felt the complete opposite and thought it was the worst episode of the season. She replied with, "No one asked you" and blocked me. I'm so glad we have REAL discussions here. It's truly a rare thing. Thank you all for that. Perhaps tomorrow I'll have some coherent comments about tonight's episode." You can TOTALLY rant here, JBB! Maybe our different opinions give you a new view on some of the situations in the ep? Or not...it's all cool. We are all entitled to our own standpoints!!! THAT'S what makes this group/site so great. Twitter mostly sucks. Jared said something funny at the Hawaii Con in answer to "does the social media criticism bother you?" - and I took his answer to be directly related to twitter rants - "Opinions (on twitter) are like a**holes - everybody has one and nobody wants to see yours." SORRY, but I thought it was pretty fitting. PNP Post reply Do you find this valuable?
1raith	17. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 25 2017, 3:20 AM EST \| Post edited: Nov 25 2017, 8:43 PM EST After a small hiatus, I finally have time to post again. That being said: Hi everyone! Journal- you know this a place where level-headed people can discuss this show in a civilized manner. There were things you and other people said that I disagreed on and vice-verse, but I still respected others' opinions. Social Media is not a good place to discuss something that it's important to you, because, it never ends well. That's why my tweets are always hollow and vague. I wouldn't worry too much about the person that blocked you. You have plenty of other friends that value your opinion :D On to the War of the Worlds. Oh, yes Fu..I mean Buck-Lemming is at it again. Only I'm more bewildered than upset at this episode. Last year when they killed off Aileen, THAT was the last straw and had me upset. Now they didn't kill anyone important in this episode, they did however convolute and cram many new plot twists in this episode. They really should have stretched them out through more episodes, NOT stuff new elements to the show in one hour. This may not be the worst episode of theirs, I still believe they should go. They are only detrimental to this amazing show. The deep scratch on a beautiful Impala. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
1raith	18. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 25 2017, 3:37 AM EST \| Post edited: Nov 25 2017, 8:41 PM EST What I didn't like: -Lucifer: Mark was once a great Luicfer. Now he just hams it up. It's as if he's being himself and not the Prince of Darkness. Rick Springfield did great job because he was both ominous and intimidating as Lucifer. Sadly he only lasted 3 eps. Not only is Mark not menacing, he seems more like a lackie now. It's an awful portrayal of Satan. Asmodeus is much more scary. When Lucifer was standing up to Asmodeus at the bar, THAT'S the character I want to see more of. -The Rift: It's that easy to open a rift through reality? Just get a spell from the tablet ( I assume) and some Archangel grace and that's it?! Ok sure. -Redhead: Rowena may still be alive again!?!?!? Come on. Either kill someone for good or dont kill them at all. There are many ways to get rid of a character besides killing them off. Please let her stay dead. If anything, bring back Aileen!! Also glad the with Witch the bros. protected didn't die. -Stuffed: TOO much new and current plots in one episode. Instead of having filler episodes, just spread out the story in different episodes. There's nothing wrong with that. What I liked: -Ketch: OMG, I had made up a story of how Ketch could come back and it was almost exactly like how wrote it. I actually liked the BMoL arc, and was very intrigued by it. It was just disappointing how it didn't live up to it's potential. It was good, but could've been great. Anyway, For me, it makes sense to how he's back. The BMoL have a vast more knowledge of the occult than the normal Hunter. So it makes sense that Ketch, being the 007 of the group had some type of method of cheating death. I wouldn't be surprised if Lady Bevell was still alive too by some type of supernatural trick. I always thought she should live, then go to Wayward Daughters and help Jodi and the rest as a form of redemption on her character. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
1raith	19. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 25 2017, 3:54 AM EST \| Post edited: Nov 25 2017, 3:55 AM EST - Micheal: Clearly, he is not the same Micheal as the one in our Earth. I get that he wants to come to our plane of existence, I need to know his motives. Is he looking for God and figured he's in our Universe? Either way, I like this new plotline. -Yellow Eyes: Asmodeus wants to be #1 now. I love how he made a power play and now wants to rule all with Jack on his side. @PignPoke- I also thought the bar scene fight was done great. Definitely one of the best fights I've seen on the show in a while. -Angels: Now we have another purpose for Jack. It makes sense that Angels are dying and their numbers are depleting. I wondered why God never made more. Though I always figured good souls would eventually become angels the same way evil souls become demons. At least the Angels now have a legitimate reason for wanting Jack. -Dean: Dean was great in this ep. A huge contrast to last week where he was very chipper. As soon as he saw Ketch, he was full on Hunter mode. That whole twin brother facade didn't fool hm for bit. Seeing as how they had some type of twisted rapport last season, I get how and why he could tell that was Arthur. Now, let's just hope he isnt killed off again. If the staff like the actor/character, then DON'T kill him off. Or any character people like for that matter. If Crowley (Mr. Plot Armor) can live for such a long time, so can other villains. -The Voider: I just know The Voider (cosmic being in the Empty) is in Cas' body. He's the WildCard for me, and he's going to reveal himself when the opportunity arrives. There's just so many elements happening in this season now, that it's become very entertaining. And to think, this is only the beginning of season 13. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PigNaPoke	20. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 25 2017, 7:26 AM EST "- Micheal: Clearly, he is not the same Micheal as the one in our Earth. I get that he wants to come to our plane of existence, I need to know his motives. Is he looking for God and figured he's in our Universe? - -The Voider: I just know The Voider (cosmic being in the Empty) is in Cas' body. He's the WildCard for me, and he's going to reveal himself when the opportunity arrives. There's just so many elements happening in this season now, that it's become very entertaining. And to think, this is only the beginning of season 13. " Hi 1raith, Welcome back!! The Voider - HA! Iike that! Your idea? I agree with you on that I, too, think that the entity hitched a ride inside Cas! I do believe Cas is Cas at the moment and unaware that he harbors the Voider. He doesn't seem to be 'acting' like he was when he was possessed by Lucifer. The thing was so intent of sleeping, maybe it is dormant at this time? Or the trip out of the Empty took a lot out of it and it is unable to manifest yet? I am SURE it'll rear its head at the most inopportune moment! I am also with you on the Michael point!! I do find him intriguing and intimidating and I think it would make for an interesting show down with any equally powerful being (not Luci at the moment). This Michael is for the first time on the show how I actually pictured an archangel - a true warrior and strategist, quite scary and very powerful. What I am missing so far is his reasoning and motive and some righteousness. To pit him against Asmodeus would be very cool! Both want to rule, we don't know exactly what yet - the whole world? Their corner of the universe? Maybe in facing Asmodeus Michael finds back to his true calling of fighting for God and protecting humanity? But I go to far. I do like both of these characters and the potential they bring to the plot. PNP Post reply Do you find this valuable?
PigNaPoke	21. RE: Let's all Talk about "War of the Worlds" (S13 E7) here! Nov 25 2017, 7:39 AM EST \| Post edited: Nov 25 2017, 7:40 AM EST Hi All! The Rift: I actually don't think that the fact that Kevin was able to open the Rift with a spell was lame or takes away from the impressiveness of Jack's powers! I do think the writers should have made it more clear what feat it was for Kevin to do so and (maybe) how difficult it is to gather the ingredients!! But even without that the pure fact that the key mojo is ARCHANGEL grace does speak of how almost impossible to achieve the opening of the rift really is! To me it actually shows how powerful Jack really is, if he can do this without conscious thought (while being born). Think about how long the rift was open at the end of season 12 and in contrast how short Kevin was able to open it even though he used Lucifer's grace? Another sign of the specialness of Jack's powers. So, if Michael is the only one left in the AU to open it back up, it will be interesting to see if he risks it on danger of weakening himself? Of course, if the Winchesters open it from the other side with Jack's help, he could just stroll through? PNP Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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