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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 7 2017, 1:18 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 7 2017, 1:18 PM EST
Dean rides a mechanical bull.

According to the preview photos, this happens, so I'm watching. :)

Oh, and he loses his memory too. Sorry, I was distracted by the bull.

I have a feeling it will be sad to watch Dean lose his memory. I expect Jensen to make me feel what Dean's feeling, 'cause he almost always does.
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kate38
kate38
1. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 9 2017, 6:52 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 9 2017, 6:53 AM EST
"Dean rides a mechanical bull.

According to the preview photos, this happens, so I'm watching. :)

Oh, and he loses his memory too. Sorry, I was distracted by the bull.

I have a feeling it will be sad to watch Dean lose his memory. I expect Jensen to make me feel what Dean's feeling, 'cause he almost always does."
Yes, I'm very worried for Dean. The previews make it seem like the episode will be "light" and funny, but I'm gonna have a box of Kleenex on standby just in case. DemonDean was funny, too, but sad just the same.

Either way, we're all in this together. Looking forward to tonight!

Kate
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1raith
1raith
2. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 9 2017, 9:31 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 9 2017, 9:33 PM EST
Ok I missed posting about last week's episode so I'll just say I liked it alot. One of this season's best eps. Now for tonight. I also liked the episode but it wasn't exactly special either. The pacing was a bit off in the beginning, though the 2nd half was much better. The montage at the end was a bit strange though. I was expecting a surprise, but we got nothing. Now for the rundown.

I didn't like:
-So we have ANOTHER book of magic that I'm sure will help solve some future problem for the bros. Rowena has the most powerful book of magic on Earth and she didn't use it to wipe the floor with the family?! What a wasted opportunity.
-Sam going in all Rambo against a family of powerful witches. I was thinking, "Sam(the writers) can't be that dumb to do that?". Then well...we saw what happened. Come on, he's an experienced Hunter, he should've known that was going to happen. Definitely an aspect that's not in Sam's character.
-Dean losing his memory isn't important enough to call either Cas or Mary. Give me a break. Should Sam call his mother (who has resources from BMOL) or an angel? Nope, he calls a witch that he doesn't trust and screwed him over many times. Nevermind the witch friend they have who's a cop or even Asa's kids that he and Dean helped out.
-For a family that has a powerful spell book, they died rather easily.
-I wish Sam asked Dean more poignant questions regarding his memory, like if he remembers John, or Bobby or some childhood memories or past moments in the show.
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
3. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 9 2017, 9:40 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 10 2017, 1:19 PM EST
Wow...holy crap...Best Of Season 12 (so far). Just....okay, I loved it. Jensen and Jared are AMAZINGL...how the hell do they do that?!!

It's that perfect SPN trademark of funny and sad. Sam's sadness...his relief when Dean was cured (of course Dean had to screw with him there)...his exasperation with Dean not being himself...

And how genius was it to not just make it funny...not just make it sad...but to make it one giant commentary on how difficult their lives had been and how different Dean would be if he really lost his memory of all the crap they've been through???? ...If they never went through all the crap...it was like a Djinn episode (and they even mentioned Djinn!) only it was reality, not fantasy.

The sad little montage at the end of "carefree Dean" implying, with the song, that it was kind of like a second childhood....

Loved Sam being the responsible one. Loved him calling Dean out on drinking too much and not acting his age.

Jensen and Dean's real-time memory loss talking to himself in the mirror was just incredible. He's so d a m n good!

And I hate Rowena. I hate her character. This was the first time I did not hate her and she did not wreck an episode for me.

The other witches were creepy and scary...not caricatures.

This was my show.

I love this show.
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1raith
1raith
4. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 9 2017, 9:46 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 9 2017, 9:46 PM EST
What I liked:

-The scene in front of the mirror where Dean was trying to remember who he was and repeating it until his memory begins to fade. What remarkable acting by Jensen. It was so moving I nearly shed a tear. That's a moment that I believe is one of the series' saddest moments.
-Dean riding the bull!
-The spell in which one of the witches was trying to resurrect his brother. I didn't know such a thing was possible, but I hope the writers keep that Black Grimoire and that spell for a future episode. This is the 2nd time this season witches showed off new (to us fans) techniques of their power. I wouldn't mind seeing the MoL vs Witches as a plotline for the rest of the season. Rowena's enemy DID mention back in season 10 that it was their fault the Coven became powerless. They were on a witch hunt and gathered any magical artifacts from their victorious battles. Hence the vault of supernatural items in the Bunker.
-The joke Dean played on Sam at the end. I knew it was coming but it was still entertaining! I love it when they do brotherly stuff like that.
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1raith
1raith
5. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 9 2017, 9:52 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 9 2017, 9:53 PM EST
"Wow...holy crap...Best Of Season 12 (so far). Just....okay, I loved it. Jensen and Jared are AMAZINGL...how the hell do they do that?!!

It's that perfect SPN trademark of funny and sad. Sam's sadness...his relief when Dean was cured (of course Dean had to screw with him there)...his exasperation with Dean not being himself...

"
It's definitely one of the season's better episodes I give you that. But for me, "Lily Sunder has some regrets" is the best one so far. Yes! It was a great balance of comedy and drama. And thank God they didn't use that asinine musical cue when Dean makes a joke or one is implied.

If they keep writing Rowena they way she was in this episode, then I'm ok with her staying on board...for a bit more.
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
6. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 9 2017, 9:52 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 9 2017, 9:52 PM EST
1raith...good ideas...yes, it could have been more poignant if Bobby or John had been brought up....

I can see them not calling Mary because they didn't want to bring her in or upset her. It made sense to me that they called a witch (even an untrustworthy one) to find out how to deal with other witches. Even if Cas is trustworthy, he may not have known as much as Rowena.

BTW...even when Dean was with Rowena in full amnesia mode in the motel, when he heard the crash on the phone, he still yelled out for Sam. I almost think Sam would be the last thing he'd forget even if he forgot himself first.

Of course, in the end, Dean would keep the painful memories instead of being free of it all but also forgetting life with Sam.
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
7. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 9 2017, 10:09 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 9 2017, 10:09 PM EST
I really liked the Lily Sunder episode too, but this one was better for me purely because of the brotherly emotion. Sam's immense worry for Dean...the burden Sam has because he knows their history and the freedom Dean has without it..it just worked on several levels for me.

Jensen talking right into the camera...Dean losing his memory in front of us and being able too see how terrifying that is for him...yup, I was about to cry too. Jensen has always been able to rip my heart out like that. It's just been awhile. He's still got it.

Jared made me tear up a bit too. He's become so good at "barely holding it together"...he's perfected it.

I think one key to liking an episode, for me, is that it has to have a narrow focus. One story...not different stories going on with different characters in the same episode...and a limited number of characters...mostly Sam and Dean...like this one.

This was the first episode of season 12 that made me feel like this...like this is why I still love Supernatural.

Okay...I don't know how the hell they did this...(lighting? makeup? better acting than Meryl Streep?), but Jensen, as Dean, freakin' LOOKED YOUNGER to me when he wasn't burdened with Dean's history. I was marveling at it as I was watching. Did anyone else feel like that's what they were seeing???
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1raith
1raith
8. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 9 2017, 10:45 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 9 2017, 10:45 PM EST
I think the last time I teared up from an episode, besides tonight, was in the season finale of season 10. When Dean was about to kill Sam in order to save the world, and Sam was on his knees pleading to his brother to never forget his family and where he came from while he was getting choked up as well. I guess that's why Sam was so upset about Dean losing his memory. Death is one thing, but to have the person you care so much in the world forget everything that meant so much to them and not remember all the struggles and accomplishments they went through their entire lives would be absolutely soul-shattering. Do you find this valuable?    
journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
9. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 9 2017, 10:58 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 9 2017, 10:58 PM EST
1raith, not to be depressing, but I had a friend die a couple years ago...about 2 years older than I am...it happened suddenly, and I realized I was the only one alive who remembered the times we spent together when it was just her and I. Those are some of my favorite memories and it still kills me to know she's not here to share the memories with me. No one else ever can. I got where Sam was coming from. Do you find this valuable?    
1raith
1raith
10. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 9 2017, 11:14 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 9 2017, 11:14 PM EST
"1raith, not to be depressing, but I had a friend die a couple years ago...about 2 years older than I am...it happened suddenly, and I realized I was the only one alive who remembered the times we spent together when it was just her and I. Those are some of my favorite memories and it still kills me to know she's not here to share the memories with me. No one else ever can. I got where Sam was coming from."
Don't worry about it but I'm very sorry for your lose. Well, I think that makes you even more special because you're the only one that remembers now. You having said that, it makes absolute sense why you loved this episode that much. I would do anything I can to retain the memories of loved ones. As the saying goes, "No one is truly dead if they are always remembered".
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kate38
kate38
11. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 10 2017, 5:38 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 10 2017, 5:43 AM EST
Another good episode, I thought!

I'm just gonna ask this -- is anyone else looking forward to the gag reel to see how many times it took Jensen to say “devil baby mama drama” without messing it up? And I'm sure there's gag reel footage of the bull ride :)

From the way Sam reacted in the very beginning (at the waffle place), apparently alcoholic blackouts aren’t something new for Dean. That makes me sort of sad for him. Along those same lines, I found myself feeling sad for Dean’s memory loss LONG before he started to worry about it himself. Not remembering how to drive the Impala almost made me want to cry. And by the time he was literally "losing his mind” in the mirror, it was unbearable. The writers tried to keep this episode light by adding funny bits here and there, but I was sad the whole time for Dean, so that sort of dampened my humor about the funny parts. The episode was very well done, but the sadness throughout was palpable for me.

I don’t have any personal or family experience with Alzheimer’s disease, but when Rowena said that at the end Dean would “forget” how to swallow and how to keep his body alive it made me wonder if the writers intended Dean’s pattern of memory loss to reflect some sort of real-life dementia. The “spottiness” of his memory made me wonder that, too. He didn’t remember how to drive or the word for lamp, but he remembered how to fire a gun.

Jared and Jensen were both wonderful in this episode – no surprise there, they always are. Jared looked like he was near tears when Rowena was explaining how Dean would deteriorate and eventually die, and then Sam had to explain that to Dean -- like telling an innocent child he's going to die. And that scene with Dean in the mirror is a heartbreaker no matter who you are. Kudos, Boys!

[...continued...]
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kate38
kate38
12. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 10 2017, 5:38 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 10 2017, 6:23 AM EST
[...continued...]

By the way, I am LOVING Sam this season. Jared has said more than once that he loves it when Sam gets to be protective of Dean. This was another Sam-to-the-rescue episode, and it was wonderful to see.

I think this is a rare occasion – we’ve actually seen the witch-killing bullets work! Have we ever truly seen that before?

Question --- did Rowena actually give Sam the book, or did she switch them out? Speaking of Rowena, I liked the little exposition we got about her character. She originally thought being powerful would bring happiness, but after seeing that Chuck and Amara weren’t happy despite all their power, she seems to feel a bit lost right now. She’s clearly still pursuing wealth, and maybe by trying to collect powerful books of magic she still wants power to some extent, but it seems that she feels the need to find herself again now. I wonder where that quest will lead her. It’s also a sad commentary on her life that she confided in Dean knowing he wouldn’t remember anything she told him. I guess that means there’s nobody for her to confide in.

I liked the montage at the end. But was that Dean remembering snippets of when he was under the spell, or were the writers just showing us that so we would know about the bull ride, and we'd be reminded what it was like for Dean when he didn't have all the baggage of his bad memories?


Kate
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kate38
kate38
13. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 10 2017, 5:54 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 10 2017, 8:13 AM EST
"-Dean losing his memory isn't important enough to call either Cas or Mary. Give me a break. Should Sam call his mother (who has resources from BMOL) or an angel? Nope, he calls a witch that he doesn't trust and screwed him over many times. Nevermind the witch friend they have who's a cop or even Asa's kids that he and Dean helped out.
"
Good question, 1raith.

I suspect that once Sam found the hex bag in the guy's stomach and knew they were dealing with a witch, he had no need to call Cas or Mary. It made sense to me that he'd call the most powerful witch alive (as far as we know) to reverse a witches' spell and save his brother. Yes, Sam has met Asa's kids, but he doesn't know them all that well. And his cop-witch friend is in the wind with Portia, his familiar/dog, so Sam may not even know where to find him -- assuming he even thought that witch would be powerful enough to help save Dean.

We know Sam doesn't trust Rowena, just like he doesn't trust Crowley. But she is undeniably useful. I think he was just calling on the most powerful witch he could get his hands on in a hurry because Dean's life was at stake.

Kate
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kate38
kate38
14. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 10 2017, 5:59 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 10 2017, 5:59 AM EST
"-The scene in front of the mirror where Dean was trying to remember who he was and repeating it until his memory begins to fade. What remarkable acting by Jensen. It was so moving I nearly shed a tear. That's a moment that I believe is one of the series' saddest moments.
"
I agree! SO terribly sad to watch Dean's mind slip away right in front of our eyes -- AND his. That was heartbreaking and Jensen's acting was powerful there.
Kate
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kate38
kate38
15. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 10 2017, 6:07 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 10 2017, 8:14 AM EST
"
BTW...even when Dean was with Rowena in full amnesia mode in the motel, when he heard the crash on the phone, he still yelled out for Sam. I almost think Sam would be the last thing he'd forget even if he forgot himself first.

"
I noticed that, too, JBB!

And I love how Dean still got to be "Dean" even when the spell was doing its worst. CLEARLY, Rowena knew Dean wouldn't obey the note that told him to "STAY" in the car. So she knew him well enough to tell him to open the false bottom in the trunk and select the right weapon. She KNEW he'd come after Sam even if he wasn't driven to do anything else. I guess they have been through enough that she has a pretty good idea of who these guys are.

And I love that even at the very end, Dean was still "Dean" enough to know how to fire a gun -- well enough to get off two clean shots (including a head shot). I also think there was a moment when Sam was on the stairs that Dean didn't truly know who he was, but for some reason he trusted him and shot the other guy. I choose to believe that way down inside, Dean's instinct to protect and trust Sam would be among the very last things to go if the spell had progressed.

Kate
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kate38
kate38
16. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 10 2017, 6:28 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 10 2017, 6:28 AM EST
"1raith, not to be depressing, but I had a friend die a couple years ago...about 2 years older than I am...it happened suddenly, and I realized I was the only one alive who remembered the times we spent together when it was just her and I. Those are some of my favorite memories and it still kills me to know she's not here to share the memories with me. No one else ever can. I got where Sam was coming from."
Wow -- how terribly sad. Thank you for sharing that with us, JBB...
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Wandlimb
Wandlimb
17. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 10 2017, 11:08 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 10 2017, 11:08 AM EST
LOVED this episode! I'll have to respond to some of your comments later (which I only could skim over) but just couldn't wait to say how much I loved this episode! So funny, 1raith, how we are opposites on the last two episodes. This may be my favorite episdoe of the season. I admit, I had to suspend disbelief that Sam would leave a vulnerable Dean with Rowena instead of calling Mary or Cas or Jodie or almost anyone else, but love it other than that. Great blend of humor and horror -- and I agree, losing yourself or a loved one is terrifying. Love the Dory reference, and the Big Talk references to sirens, etc. I thought the last montage was going to be funny but the ended up be heart-wrenching. Great witches, believable and good to hate. Loved the post it notes in the big finale. Loved Rowena's thoughts on the futility of pursuing power. Just my kind of episode. More later after I get to read your comments! Do you find this valuable?    
Wandlimb
Wandlimb
18. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 10 2017, 12:49 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 10 2017, 12:52 PM EST
1raith, I didn't find it unlikely that Sam would blaze in to get the witches so much as that he would leave vulnerable Dean with Rowena. It is not unprecedented for Dean's peril to unleash his hot-blooded, impulsive and reckless side.

I like your idea of a MoL v. Witches showdown!

JBB - good insight about the narrowly focused episodes being the best. Hard to think of one that wasn't that I'd rank in the top 20. And, I also loved the moment where Dean still remembered to call out for Sam!

kate38 - "From the way Sam reacted in the very beginning (at the waffle place), apparently alcoholic blackouts aren’t something new for Dean. That makes me sort of sad for him" Yes! Worrisome. Not season 7 bad but not good. I was also alarmed with Sam's reaction to Dean behind the wheel - take the keys, don't give him a pep talk! But, that fits with their rather stoic approach to dealing with pain -- drowning their sorrows and not talking about their problems. I also thought the Alzheimer's references were haunting. I have a friend struggling with a dementia diagnosis and it's a nightmare. I feel like the writer must have some experience because Rowena's description of the loss of memory leading even to the loss of swallowing reminds me of my preemie, who had to learn how to swallow. As far as not remembering words but having muscle memory, that was believable to me. Also, the lamp looked weird. :) Also loved the scene where we see Dean reacting to Sam giving him the talk about his death. That was poignant, as was Sam's face at the end when Dean was messing with him. As for your bullets questions, didn't Sam shoot the witch in "Love Hurts"?

Q: Was the purple "Stay" post-it from Rowen and the yellow post-its from Sam?



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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
19. RE: Let's all talk "Regarding Dean" (S12 E11) here!
Feb 10 2017, 1:10 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 10 2017, 1:10 PM EST
Kate; I think the montage was sort of a "what a carefree Dean would look like if he didn't have the 'Dean' baggage"...that's how I took it and I took it to be a sad thing. Do you find this valuable?    
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