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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 2 2016, 7:15 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 2 2016, 7:15 PM EDT
I love a new episode every week and can't wait to discuss it with everyone!!!! This time it's a fundamentalist off-the-grid family...with a secret. Do you find this valuable?    
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kate38
kate38
1. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 3 2016, 10:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2016, 10:10 PM EDT
WOW!! What a FUN episode!!! Good story, just the right amount of creepy and gross. Really fun ride! I don’t think we’ve had John Showalter directing for a while, have we? And I think this is one of the new writers, too.

Leave it to Supernatural to show me something I’ve never seen. Now we’re messing with stigmata and flagellants? Pretty heavy. Pretty medieval, too...

Father Deniro and Father Penn?? LOL!!!

I was sad to see the Boys pulling away from each other, but I’m sure they’ll get it together. They’ve been through this type of pain TOO many times to not have learned that they need to help each other through this. Once again, they’ll realize that all they have in this world is each other. I have faith...

I'm guessing Dean didn't tell Sam about Mary's text because he doesn't want Sam to know he's been texting her. Sigh...he'll get it together. Hey, at least he's not drinking his pain away this time. That's progress, right?

I also liked how they’ve moved the subplots along. We know that the creepy motorcycle guy is Mr. Ketch, and we know that he’s following the Winchesters and may try to kill them. The MOLs may even go after Mary. And we know that Cas and Crowley are hunting down Lucifer. There are still a lot of moving parts this season, but I don't mind that. I think it adds texture. But tonight, they focused on the main, creepy story, and managed to keep us up to date on the other stuff. Nice work, I thought.

Loving season 12 so far, gang :)

Kate
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kate38
kate38
2. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 3 2016, 10:11 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2016, 10:26 PM EDT
Side question -- why did it take Dean all night to get to the farm? Where the heck was he coming from??

Crazy mamma didn't really expect Sam to eat with his hands tied behind his back, did she?

Hey, did anybody else think about Piper Laurie and Sissy Spacek (Carrie) in that final scene with the knife? Just me? Okay, then...

p.s. Is it wrong to think Jensen looks good with crows feet?

Kate
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
3. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 3 2016, 10:32 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2016, 10:44 PM EDT

LOVED IT!!

It seemed a lot like a early season episode! Good "Monster" of the week, some interesting plot twists, no hokey music, a lot of focus on the Boys (even a good talk over the roof of the Impala), good teaser of things to come at the end. NICE!

I also loved the sub-arc of Sam trying to get Dean to talk, Dean pulling away, Sam trying some more, both getting pissed and splitting up for a while, just to come back together.....lol....that is some entire seasons in one episode.

I do, too, wish Dean would be open about texting with Mary, BUT I was pleasantly surprised that Dean actually admitted to be wrong at the end.

I even liked the way the boys talked about and dealt with the Mary situation. Maybe a little surprised that Dean wasn't MORE upset about it....but then I have to say that I enjoy the more grown up reaction and way he didn't just completely retreat and bury himself.

HA, I called the Ketch thing! Definitely shocking that he "cleaned up the Winchester's mess" at the end. I didn't see that coming and I feel really sorry for the girl, who already had such a f**ed up life.

It is still really upsetting to me that the BMoL seem to be the new big evil this season, when I had so hoped that we would get more of a cooperation from them. Oh well! I guess we're having a war and the American Hunters will have to stand up to the envasion...could also be interesting.

PNP

.

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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
4. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 3 2016, 10:35 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2016, 10:35 PM EDT
"Side question -- why did it take Dean all night to get to the farm? Where the heck was he coming from??

Crazy mamma didn't really expect Sam to eat with his hands tied behind his back, did she?

Hey, did anybody else think about Piper Laurie and Sissy Spacek (Carrie) in that final scene with the knife? Just me? Okay, then...

p.s. Is it wrong to think Jensen looks good with crows feet?

Kate"
Yeah, Kate, I was thinking that, too!

I am not 100% that the mother wanted to kill Sam. She only wanted her family together in Heaven.... (crazy back woods Trump voters...),

And Jensen with laugh lines is my favorite look on him ever!!! He is getting hotter every year!

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
5. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 3 2016, 10:39 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2016, 10:46 PM EDT

Always love Jensen's work, but for me Jared knocked this one out of the park AGAIN!

When he talked to Magda about the psychic gifts and then offered her help after and told her that " it doesn't control you,you control it" etc it made a nice parallel for me to his struggle with depression and the AFK movement. It was very heartfelt and honest and real. Acting or speaking from the heart....either way, it was terrific.

PNP
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
6. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 3 2016, 10:56 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2016, 11:15 PM EDT
I haven't read the comments yet...

I...liked this one! I think it helped a lot that the other storylines were left out of this one, mostly.

I liked:

The Sam and Dean conversations. It ain't Robbie Thompson, but it wasn't bad! Liked them talking about Mary and how it got to Dean...I LOVED Sam defending rocker Vince Vicente (the 80!s, non-Lucifer version) and Dean getting all over him for it. That was one of my favorite parts.

The references WAY back to Sam's psychic abilities and Sam talking about it...relating to Magda.

Sam. I just liked Sam. I liked watching him talk to Magda.

Mary texting Dean at the end and Dean keeping it to himself...like he wanted that connection for himself for now. I wonder if Mary will be "acting via text" from now on?

The religious-angle story...though I'm still confused as to why the stigmata...the flogging, I get. There sure was a lot of flogging!

The "Heaven's Gate" let's-all-commit-suicide angle took me by surprise and I liked that.

Loved that Dean thought it was hot that the woman he had planned to kill ended up asking him out...I love that he's often a little twisted in what he finds hot.

Enjoyed the ethnic diversity here (second social worker).

I know psychic Magda really saved Sam, but I was glad that Dean didn't barge in to save the day this time.
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
7. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 3 2016, 11:01 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2016, 11:14 PM EDT
I did not like:

The music...again. Too much and too sappy.

The re-using of footage. We just saw the LONG scene of the flogging of the social worker in the church. It was a waste of time to flash back to it.

The wife wanted Sam at dinner? Really? Why? As a witness? There was a bowl in front of Sam too. Did she plan for him to die?

The end. Ugh...stupid British MOL plot interfered with my enjoyment of the whole thing. I liked keeping psychic Magda alive...and now she's dead. Again it was a too-short waste of an interesting character.

Didn't totally buy that a tech family dropped it all for religious reasons....kind of heavy-handed commentary on the evils of modern life.

The attempt at humor when Dean tried to go over the low fence while Sam walked around. It was an odd moment for that. It didn't fit and seemed like a cheap shot at a laugh. They can be SO funny...like the Vince Vicente conversation.
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catleigh
catleigh
8. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 3 2016, 11:06 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2016, 11:06 PM EDT
"It seemed a lot like a early season episode! Good "Monster" of the week, some interesting plot twists, no hokey music, a lot of focus on the Boys (even a good talk over the roof of the Impala), good teaser of things to come at the end. NICE!

I do, too, wish Dean would be open about texting with Mary, BUT I was pleasantly surprised that Dean actually admitted to be wrong at the end.

I even liked the way the boys talked about and dealt with the Mary situation. Maybe a little surprised that Dean wasn't MORE upset about it....but then I have to say that I enjoy the more grown up reaction and way he didn't just completely retreat and bury himself.
"
Agree with this almost 100%, although I do think that Dean did kind of reference that he was trying to contact Mary when he said she took a cell phone that 'she doesn't answer/use'. And, like a lot of Winchester to Winchester communication, I bet he tells Sam about the text at the end off-screen, just letting Sam know that he's heard from her.

Thought new writer Davy Perez did a fantastic job! He focused on the characters without being heavy-handed which let J&J do their awesome 'actor stuff' which always turns out well IMO.

Agree that Dean's reactions show some maturity while still being true to his character and issues, which is refreshing! I could nit-pick about how their hunting skills dipped sharply (really, Sam, leaving your ringer on? and Dean doing an Evel Knievel-length jump to conclusions about the Wiccan), but hey, I'll chalk it up to the stress of resurrected Mom and aftershocks of torture and meeting God face to face (not to mention his sis). Guess they might be a little rusty on the regular old monsters.
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journalbookbinder
journalbookbinder
9. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 3 2016, 11:23 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2016, 11:23 PM EDT
Next week's will be directed by Nina Lopez-Corrado who directed Red Meat and whom Jared and Jensen, especially Jensen, seem to love.

And next week is the episode that Jensen's been teasing at conventions for awhile...where the grenade launcher FINALLY sees the light of day from inside the Impala's trunk!
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catleigh
catleigh
10. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 3 2016, 11:28 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2016, 11:28 PM EDT
"Next week's will be directed by Nina Lopez-Corrado who directed Red Meat and whom Jared and Jensen, especially Jensen, seem to love.

And next week is the episode that Jensen's been teasing at conventions for awhile...where the grenade launcher FINALLY sees the light of day from inside the Impala's trunk!"
This must be the one they were shooting during VanCon, then? My son thought the fan vids of the shooting were hilarious, especially the ones where J2 run to the Impala, peel out (with fishtail), then go half a block and have to stop for a red light. And, we get the Thule back for a bit...I always love the way this show ties in stuff from previous seasons--like how the scotch that Jodi and Sam find in Bobby's things shows up with an origin story four seasons later.

Looking forward to next week!
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kate38
kate38
11. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 4 2016, 5:51 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 4 2016, 5:51 AM EDT
"
The wife wanted Sam at dinner? Really? Why? As a witness? There was a bowl in front of Sam too. Did she plan for him to die?

The end. Ugh...stupid British MOL plot interfered with my enjoyment of the whole thing. I liked keeping psychic Magda alive...and now she's dead. Again it was a too-short waste of an interesting character.

"
Hey, JBB :)

I was also confused about what Sam was supposed to do at dinner. Clearly, he couldn't eat the food with his hands tied behind his back. Was she planning to force feed him? I suspect she wanted him there as a witness, and he had to have a bowl in front of him (even food that he CLEARLY couldn't eat by himself) because otherwise the rest of the family would have known something was up and perhaps wouldn't have participated. Not so sure about the logistics of that scene.

And I was also disappointed that Magda died, but for me, the early season flashbacks are reminders that Azazel could have COUNTLESS psychic kids still out there who don't know who they are or what they can do. The last child we know that he tried to turn was the baby in "Salvation", so if he was turning kids for 22 years (assuming Sam's group was the first crop -- which it may NOT have been), there could be many more of these psychic kid stories to explore. So hopefully this has not turned into a wasted plot line.

Kate
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kate38
kate38
12. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 4 2016, 5:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 4 2016, 5:58 AM EDT
"The attempt at humor when Dean tried to go over the low fence while Sam walked around. It was an odd moment for that. It didn't fit and seemed like a cheap shot at a laugh. They can be SO funny...like the Vince Vicente conversation."
Yeah, that little bit annoyed me, too. These guys used to scale fences effortlessly ("Provenance" and "Phantom Traveler" come to mind), but now we're supposed to believe that Dean can't get over that little fence? Come on, SPN -- I realize we haven't seen them do that for a while, but they're not THAT old!!!

Kate
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kate38
kate38
13. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 4 2016, 6:03 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 4 2016, 6:04 AM EDT
"It is still really upsetting to me that the BMoL seem to be the new big evil this season, when I had so hoped that we would get more of a cooperation from them. Oh well! I guess we're having a war and the American Hunters will have to stand up to the invasion...could also be interesting.

PNP

"
Hahaha! I pretty much but the Brit MOLs in the "evil" category when they kidnapped and tortured Sam. But there's still room to make this an interesting battle. There is already disagreement among them about how to handle the Winchesters and the American hunters in general. Apparently, Mick thinks the Winchesters HAVE done some good, but Toni and probably other MOLs are reluctant to agree. Maybe we'll see a civil war of sorts among the MOLs? Or maybe we'll see a defector cross to the other side to help/save the Winchesters.

I'm okay hating them for now, though :)

Kate
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
14. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 4 2016, 10:24 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 4 2016, 10:24 AM EDT
"Next week's will be directed by Nina Lopez-Corrado who directed Red Meat and whom Jared and Jensen, especially Jensen, seem to love.

And next week is the episode that Jensen's been teasing at conventions for awhile...where the grenade launcher FINALLY sees the light of day from inside the Impala's trunk!"
YESSSS!
But I had to laugh so hard, because it looks in the preview as if Dean pulls it out (hence - light of day or night) and Sam chides him and he'll put it back?!

Was THAT all Jensen was teasing us about in the convention?? Too funny.

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
15. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 4 2016, 10:36 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 4 2016, 10:36 AM EDT
"I did not like:

The wife wanted Sam at dinner? Really? Why? As a witness? There was a bowl in front of Sam too. Did she plan for him to die?

The end. Ugh...stupid British MOL plot interfered with my enjoyment of the whole thing. I liked keeping psychic Magda alive...and now she's dead. Again it was a too-short waste of an interesting character.

Didn't totally buy that a tech family dropped it all for religious reasons....kind of heavy-handed commentary on the evils of modern life.

The attempt at humor when Dean tried to go over the low fence while Sam walked around. It was an odd moment for that. It didn't fit and seemed like a cheap shot at a laugh. They can be SO funny...like the Vince Vicente conversation."
Hi JBB,

I do agree with you on that is bothered me a bit that the family's back story was a little too simplified!! The switch from "perfect, successful family" to religious nutso back woods freaks flogging their child didn't ring true....BUT I appreciated the story line enough to cut the writers slack on that.

And I am happy they concentrated more time on the boys instead of going into endless back story...so...I am ok with that.

MY silly qualm was: Why the heck would you feed your animals at night by the light of lanterns, when you have no electricity??? Makes no sense to a horse person like me...but, whatever.

I personally thought that the mother was NOT planning to kill Sam (or at least not with food) but wanted him in sight for security reasons maybe.

And the crawl over the fence WAS a cheap laugh and slightly awkward, but you never know if they might have adlibbed that...


PNP

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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
16. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 4 2016, 10:43 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 4 2016, 10:43 AM EDT
"I did not like:

The end. Ugh...stupid British MOL plot interfered with my enjoyment of the whole thing. I liked keeping psychic Magda alive...and now she's dead. Again it was a too-short waste of an interesting character.

"
Hey JBB,

Although I didn't like that Madga was taken out by Ketch....I did like the ominous feeling that left us with for things to come!

How DARE the BMoL feel like they have to watch the Winchsters and "clean up" after them....

It just gives us yet more insight on their completely rule driven, no-prisoner, shoot-fist-ask-questions-never attitude and superiority complex.

That whole scene send an uncomfortable thought through me: The Boys didn't have enough convo with Mary yet, but what if she is a really black/white view kind of hunter herself and AGREES with some of the BMoL view points on monster disposal?
Could be grounds for some major family fall out once she finds out more about Sam and Dean's more "grey area" views and practices.

What do you think?

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
17. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 4 2016, 11:04 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 4 2016, 11:04 AM EDT
"Thought new writer Davy Perez did a fantastic job! He focused on the characters without being heavy-handed which let J&J do their awesome 'actor stuff' which always turns out well IMO.

Agree that Dean's reactions show some maturity while still being true to his character and issues, which is refreshing! I could nit-pick about how their hunting skills dipped sharply (really, Sam, leaving your ringer on? and Dean doing an Evel Knievel-length jump to conclusions about the Wiccan), but hey, I'll chalk it up to the stress of resurrected Mom and aftershocks of torture and meeting God face to face (not to mention his sis). Guess they might be a little rusty on the regular old monsters."
Hey Catleigh,

I thought so, too! Much appreciated effort from a new writer!!

And I LOVE your comment on the Hunting Skills and oversights!! I thought so, too, but liked the episode enough to overlook it!

There were a few holes...like Kate said "How far away WAS Dean that it took all night to get back to Sam?"....but again, I liked the episode overall enough to overlook that.

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
18. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 4 2016, 11:23 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 4 2016, 11:23 AM EDT
"Hey, JBB :)

And I was also disappointed that Magda died, but for me, the early season flashbacks are reminders that Azazel could have COUNTLESS psychic kids still out there who don't know who they are or what they can do. The last child we know that he tried to turn was the baby in "Salvation", so if he was turning kids for 22 years (assuming Sam's group was the first crop -- which it may NOT have been), there could be many more of these psychic kid stories to explore. So hopefully this has not turned into a wasted plot line.

Kate"
Hi JBB and Kate,

I really didn't think that it was a wasted plot line or character.

To me Magda stood in for two things - aside from the obvious tie back to Azazel's kids:

1. She seemed to serve as metaphor for people struggling with being bullied and with depression and self-harm the way that she bought into her mother's crazy talk, believed that she was evil, had the devil in her and harmed others even though she meant to reach out for help. It was also apparent in the way the dialogue between Sam and her was shaped and I thought it was especially effective, because it was Jared who told her all these things.

2. She served as another example how ruthless, narrow-minded and brutal the BMoL are. Giving us a deeper glimpse at the methods and mindset. For being so all-mighty and all-knowing like Tony made them seem, they have a very similar "all-monsters-need-to-die" attitude like many American Hunters we have seen over the years. And obviously anything not purely human is monster to them....period.

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
19. RE: Let's all talk "American Nightmare" (S12 E4) HERE!
Nov 4 2016, 8:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 4 2016, 8:43 PM EDT

Hi All,

Two things I noticed while rewatching the ep:

1. Continuation error: When Dean and Sam are standing by the Impala's trunk after being thrown off the Peterson's property, Dean props up the subfloor and they extract the colt and the EMF meter from the weapons cash, but when they straighten up and you see them in the next shot, the sub floor is down and all you see is the regular trunk.

2. Sam's screen saver on his phone is the MOL symbol....lol...I think I would have removed that after being tortured by them... :)

Over all - still loved the ep.

PNP
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