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Discussion: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!Reported This is a featured thread

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kate38
kate38
20. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 14 2016, 7:45 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 14 2016, 7:46 AM EDT
I hear you guys about Mary/Samantha and her emotion, but I’m not so sure. I get that things are supposed to be awkward because she’s been gone for a long time, she JUST met her adult son, and she’s been rocketed ahead 33 years into the future. Okay, then SHOW ME awkward. Show me angst, uncertainty, sadness, connectedness to your son – show me ANYTHING. But I’m just getting flatness from her. And I don’t see the awkwardness coming from Jensen. When he looks at her, I see and feel something, but when she looks back, I just get flatness. She had more emotion when she met the Impala than she had when she was interacting with the other actors.

There were a few high points. The first scene when they meet, and the scene on the park bench are both wonderful. Jensen almost has tears in his eyes when he’s telling her the backstory about when she and John met. And Samantha has the perfect amount of confusion, sadness, and awe. That was perfect! But then it quickly fizzles away into flatness from her for most of the rest of the episode. And since she’s almost 50 percent of the episode, it left a hole for me. Hopefully it’s just early in the season and that will get better. Or hopefully it's just me...
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kate38
kate38
21. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 14 2016, 7:53 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 14 2016, 7:57 AM EDT
"One other thing, that MoL agent who fought Dean and Cas, couldn't Cas just subdue her by putting her to sleep like he did to the driver who's car he stole? And couldn't he also extract the information of Sam's whereabouts but simply touching her?

"
I think Cas did try to angel-touch the MOL chick at the very beginning of their fight. He reached out to touch her forehead, but she punched him and the rest of it was just a fight.

I don't think angels can read minds? A few times, they implied that Cas can tell when someone is lying, but I didn't know he could read minds. As many times as angels have deceived each other, and as many times as the Boys have lied to Cas, I question whether they can read minds (or whether the writers have been consistent about whether they can or not).

Kate
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
22. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 14 2016, 8:25 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 14 2016, 8:25 AM EDT
"I hear you guys about Mary/Samantha and her emotion, but I’m not so sure. I get that things are supposed to be awkward because she’s been gone for a long time, she JUST met her adult son, and she’s been rocketed ahead 33 years into the future. Okay, then SHOW ME awkward. Show me angst, uncertainty, sadness, connectedness to your son – show me ANYTHING. But I’m just getting flatness from her. And I don’t see the awkwardness coming from Jensen. When he looks at her, I see and feel something, but when she looks back, I just get flatness. She had more emotion when she met the Impala than she had when she was interacting with the other actors.

There were a few high points. The first scene when they meet, and the scene on the park bench are both wonderful. Jensen almost has tears in his eyes when he’s telling her the backstory about when she and John met. And Samantha has the perfect amount of confusion, sadness, and awe. That was perfect! But then it quickly fizzles away into flatness from her for most of the rest of the episode. And since she’s almost 50 percent of the episode, it left a hole for me. Hopefully it’s just early in the season and that will get better. Or hopefully it's just me...
"
Hi Kate,

I did not see her are being flat, just cautious and unsure if she WANTED to be there. So for me, I did get emotion out of her, just not warm and fuzzy ones.... more weary Hunter, than overjoyed Mom. And to be honest, I can dig that.

I am also not entirely sure Amara was correct in assuming that Dean felt like he needed Mom back!! I know that had a connection (Dean and Amara) but she wasn't really tuned into human feelings and emotions in a sensible way.... so I am not sure here that idea came from?

I didn't get the impression that it was God's idea.... just Amar's parting gift ....and I am doubting that she did any of them a real favor here.... but we shall see.

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
23. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 14 2016, 8:28 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 14 2016, 8:28 AM EDT
"I think Cas did try to angel-touch the MOL chick at the very beginning of their fight. He reached out to touch her forehead, but she punched him and the rest of it was just a fight.

I don't think angels can read minds? A few times, they implied that Cas can tell when someone is lying, but I didn't know he could read minds. As many times as angels have deceived each other, and as many times as the Boys have lied to Cas, I question whether they can read minds (or whether the writers have been consistent about whether they can or not).

Kate"
I don't think angles can read minds either...

And it seem to me that the Brit MoL must have some highly sophisticated warding on them to make them immune to the power of any Supernatural Creature.
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
24. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 14 2016, 8:41 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 14 2016, 8:41 AM EDT
". You're right, Toni could've just gotten any other Hunter and have them delve the information. All we know is that the MoL wants to create a well-oiled machine for America. Which I DO like. I hope it does happen, but the way the brothers are, I doubt it'll happen. I AM curious to know what techniques and tricks the MoL can teach the bros. and other Hunters. Her excuse of the Older MoL council saying they want to not get involved reminds me of the Watchers in Buffy.

"
Hey 1raith,

THAT is exactly what I would not want.... and I don't think it would ever work.... to organize the Hunters in the USA under some Imported Power structure....
It never really worked in Buffy's case either!!
I do think that it is very good story line, though, because you can almost echo/reflect history with that and the American Independence against British rule!! I highly doubt that our deeply "Americana" rooted show would EVER let its heroes be ordered about by a stuffy, stuck-up organization from the Olde Country....lol.
I do not doubt that a little better organization for the Hunters in the US would be a good thing.... and there definitely needs to be some type of 'next generation camp', but I'd like to see that come about organically and from the HUNTER side.
I do agree with you that I love the MOL story line and the endless possibilities it opens. So I was really sad yesterday to see it start off completely on the wrong foot.... and quite brutishly and insensible on their part.

PNP
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Wandlimb
Wandlimb
25. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 14 2016, 7:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 14 2016, 7:29 PM EDT
"You know, my hubby just brought up a good point:
Why didn't Sam yank the camera cables out when he first woke up and found himself unbound? Before the hallucinations start he sees the cameras, but doens't do anything about it.
"
PNP, I thought it was odd that he left the camera alone and that he didn't stand on the table and try to get out of the window. I'm chalking it up to exhaustion and drugs.

I enjoyed the episode overall! Personally, I chalk Mary's coldness up to shock and as evidence that her heart is having a hard time processing that this man is her baby.

Did anyone else wonder what Toni was thinking as she watched Sam try to sleep at the foot of the stairs? Grudging admiration maybe? Or is that just me projecting? (He sure looks nice during water torture.)

Can Cas hear prayers any more? I kept wanting Sam to pray to Cas for help. Is that no longer wired up?

Crowley and the demons are shadows of their former selves. Hoping Lucifer brings some horror back to the show. Well, maybe just some real dread.
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1raith
1raith
26. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 14 2016, 11:23 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 14 2016, 11:32 PM EDT
@ Kate: Good point!, I think they can only read minds of the hosts they posses. I could've sworn they can read minds somehow.

@PigNPoke: Yeah, the Hunters need an organized system to hunt more efficiently. The closest thing they had to one was when Bobby was the "FBI" director for most Hunters. If the MoL want an American presence in the U.S again, it would have to be Sam or Dean. My money is on Sam. Dean is a Hunter through and through but Sam was always the intellect of the two. And I remember him being just mesmerized when they first found the bunker. Though, they are doing a crap job in "courting" Sam. My prediction for the end of the season: Sam will be running the MoL U.S. division. Also, currently the bros. are dealing with the British chapter, so I wonder if the other world chapters will get involved soon. I'm sure the Canada MoL will open the brothers with open arms :)

@Wandlimb: Yeah I was wondering that as well! Cas should be able to hear him BUT, they could have warded the place in order to prevent such a thing from happening. I agree with you and Journal, one of the things that made the show so intriguing was the sense of horror and mystery. Back then the demon and angel were so ominous. Now they are just beings in suits now that spew some lame dialogue. We need more Azazels and Uriels. Also Hell does NOT look terrifying at all. Aside from the location of Lucifer's cage, there's nothing scary about it. Same for Heaven and its lack of opulence.

I'd also like to know where Rowena is. I wonder if she still has the Book of the Damned. I wonder if that's something the MoL are interested in obtaining. I remember the former Coven leader telling Rowena that the MoL were responsible in destroying them and taking all their magical artifacts. I hope they continue that plot even further this season.
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
27. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 15 2016, 6:38 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2016, 6:40 AM EDT
"PNP, I thought it was odd that he left the camera alone and that he didn't stand on the table and try to get out of the window. I'm chalking it up to exhaustion and drugs.

Did anyone else wonder what Toni was thinking as she watched Sam try to sleep at the foot of the stairs? Grudging admiration maybe? Or is that just me projecting? (He sure looks nice during water torture.)

Can Cas hear prayers any more? I kept wanting Sam to pray to Cas for help. Is that no longer wired up?
"
Hey Wandlimb,
SO GOOD TO BE BACK HERE AND TALK!! It's like back to school with friends after a summer vacation!!

I watched the ep again last night and do agree that I was mostly unfair to Sam... not behaving all too logically in this situation is probably to be explained away with exhaustion, drugs and grief.

The way he crumpled at the bottom of the stairs at the end totally broke my heart. He looks so LOST and sad and hopeless.....aaaawww.

And I think, you are right, Wandlimb, there is probably some grudging admiration there in Toni's expression, together with a little fear or at least insecurity of what to do next. She must be very aware that she only got away by a hair's breath. And now Sam is loose in the basement and the drugs will wear off and she knows he is formidable. She most likely doesn't know yet that her partner was killed, but she may worry already about how they will subdue Sam again now that he's unbound.... unless she plans to outright kill him....

And I was wondering, too, why Cas has no prayer-connection with Sam, but maybe Toni's send off sigil interrupted the angel radio waves??

I guess we can explain everything away convenient....

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
28. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 15 2016, 6:54 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2016, 6:56 AM EDT
"
@PigNPoke: Yeah, the Hunters need an organized system to hunt more efficiently. The closest thing they had to one was when Bobby was the "FBI" director for most Hunters. If the MoL want an American presence in the U.S again, it would have to be Sam or Dean. My money is on Sam. Dean is a Hunter through and through but Sam was always the intellect of the two. And I remember him being just mesmerized when they first found the bunker. Though, they are doing a crap job in "courting" Sam. My prediction for the end of the season: Sam will be running the MoL U.S. division. Also, currently the bros. are dealing with the British chapter, so I wonder if the other world chapters will get involved soon. I'm sure the Canada MoL will open the brothers with open arms :)
"
Hey 1raith,
NICE profile pc change!

I can live with your solution!!! I would LOVE to see Sam in a more organizational or coordinational role and somewhat the head of the MOL or at least an organization using the MOL's knowledge and support.
I don't want him off the road and strictly stuck in the bunker, though.
And I think it will need to be a different style MOL in the US then what Toni describes about the UK.
Hunters in the US all seemed to have gotten into the business for some personal reason or another to our current knowledge. Other than the Campbell's (well and maybe Krissie) we don't know about any other multi-generational Hunter families, do we?

So I just don't see a way for the UK MOL to swoop in and take on authority and use the US Hunters as pure, brute muscle and soldiers.

THAT is what I don't want and can't see to work.

If they find a way to build a new style MOL for the US and involve Sam and Dean more or less like the head of it and as liaison with the UK to create a SUPPORT system and not a "hierarchy".... I am all for it!!

Wanna see some German MOL, too.
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Wandlimb
Wandlimb
29. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 15 2016, 11:24 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2016, 11:24 AM EDT
"Hey Wandlimb,
SO GOOD TO BE BACK HERE AND TALK!! It's like back to school with friends after a summer vacation!!

I guess we can explain everything away convenient....

PNP

1raith
I'd also like to know where Rowena is. I wonder if she still has the Book of the Damned. I wonder if that's something the MoL are interested in obtaining. I remember the former Coven leader telling Rowena that the MoL were responsible in destroying them and taking all their magical artifacts. I hope they continue that plot even further this season."
Hi PNP and 1raith! It is so fun to chat with everyone again!

It's essential to be able to suspend disbelief to enjoy most fictional TV shows. I mean, can you imagine those ladies trying to carry an unconscious Sam, seat him in a chair and bind him? He's a big guy! Jellylegs is his prime defense.

Did you catch the name of the mind-attacker that Toni was creeped out by? A person?

I'd forgotten about Rowena's connection to the MOL. I like the idea of those artifacts having a bad influence on the British MOL. Although, really, they aren't far off from Cas in this episodes -- he's good and scary in this episode, lacking compassion for anyone not a Winchester.
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
30. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 15 2016, 2:12 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2016, 2:12 PM EDT
"Hi PNP and 1raith! It is so fun to chat with everyone again!

It's essential to be able to suspend disbelief to enjoy most fictional TV shows. I mean, can you imagine those ladies trying to carry an unconscious Sam, seat him in a chair and bind him? He's a big guy! Jellylegs is his prime defense.

Did you catch the name of the mind-attacker that Toni was creeped out by? A person?

I'd forgotten about Rowena's connection to the MOL. I like the idea of those artifacts having a bad influence on the British MOL. Although, really, they aren't far off from Cas in this episodes -- he's good and scary in this episode, lacking compassion for anyone not a Winchester."
Oh, well, yeah, if you put it that way....I guess, they would have had a tough time getting Sam down the stairs....HA!
But it's like with any James Bond Movie, right, can't get into too much technical detail or it's NO fun to watch...

Anyhow, I didn't catch the name of the torturer, who's name gave Toni the hibie-jeebies, but I would think it's the guy with the cross tattooed on his hand?! I am sure we will meet him sooner or later.

I saw in one of the Pre-Season chats with the show runners that they said Rowena has turned away from the Supernatural world in the beginning of the season, being disillusioned a little, but that she is being dragged back in and becoming more of an ally to the Boys....SO, I am sure we see plenty of her soon.

PNP
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catleigh
catleigh
31. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 15 2016, 2:57 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2016, 2:57 PM EDT
HI all! I'm late to the party, but I'm another one who is so happy to be back to having new episodes to discuss with you all here!

I liked the episode, overall, and thought it was a good start to the season. Funny how everyone is having such different reactions to Mary--I personally thought that she was believable as a woman reacting to being thrown into a strange world where her small children are now adult men. I'm not a big fan of this storyline, either, but their first installment was pretty good.....
EXCEPT for the fight with the Irish MOL chick. I guess the 'enchanted brass knuckles' theory is good for explaining why one woman could supposedly beat two experienced, bad-ass fighters (one of whom is a full-power angel again) so easily. I mean, c'mon--she knocks Dean around AND steals his gun like he's some kind of newbie to fighting? And then makes Cas look like he's never thrown a punch before? I just couldn't suspend that much disbelief. But....ok, let's blame it on the magic weapons. Still doesn't explain how she found them (Dean wasn't using his cell phone, he used the vet's). Maybe Toni got Dean's number off of Sam's cell--ok, maybe. But then how did her sidekick get to them so fast? They barely had time to drive out of town. And then at the end, they're headed for Missouri to find Sam and clearly expecting a long drive (makes sense given the geography), so how did evil MOL torturer chick get to them so fast? Help from The Flash? This whole scene was silly and unnecessary...it did nothing to promote the story or develop the characters. It was just an incredibly convoluted and unbelievable set up for Mary to rescue Dean. Why? We already know she's a hunter and a bad ass. This was an impulse to insert a cliche that I really wish Dabb had resisted.
Still, really looking forward to next week and this whole season!
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catleigh
catleigh
32. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 15 2016, 3:11 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2016, 3:11 PM EDT
"I had a really hard time watching Sam get tortured. I don’t like watching torture scenes in general, but this was particularly hard, especially when she burned his feet. I read that Jared’s feet really got cut on the cement while he was filming that. Does anyone know if that’s really true?

"
Also, just wanted to say that I agree with you here, Kate! I have a hard time with any torture scenes, honestly, but watching Sam get hurt always hurts me. Though I am also in the camp who think Jared's acting, from his defiant and sassy Sam to his reactions to the torture and drugs to his escape attempt, was absolutely amazing!

As for his feet getting injured, I don't know the whole story, but I did see a con panel video where Jared said something along the lines of 'we just finished filming episode two (he laughs a little); we called it the 'feet episode', and my feet got pretty beat up during the filming.' Then, during a later convention, when J2 were talking about injuries they have sustained over the years while filming, Jared mentioned his feet being cut up this season and Jensen mentioned having a flaming object burn his hand/arm in a more recent episode. So, my guess is that Sam spends some time either being tortured again or (more likely) running around that basement and fighting while barefoot in the next episode and that is how he got hurt during the filming.
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
33. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 15 2016, 3:24 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2016, 3:24 PM EDT
Hey Catleigh,

good to have you back!!

All very good points about the MOL chick getting to the right place at the right time so perfectly and easily....I didn't even WANT to bring that up...lol.

I do think it served another purpose, besides the fact that Mary saved Dean (ALTHOUGH he almost got shot in the process....) and then obviously felt horrible about taking a human life...
It also introduced us to the fact that there ARE magic weapons of this kind.

YES, the scenario was convoluted and highly improbable and unbelievable, but I actually think that introducing some new "mighty toys" could be great fun....since Angel Blades must have been on sale at some point, because everybody seems to have them nowadays and the Ruby Knife has limited use...

But, of course, they could have made this all much less clonky. :)

PNP
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1raith
1raith
34. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 15 2016, 4:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2016, 4:31 PM EDT
@ Pnp, Cat, and Wand: Yes, much like when Dean came back from Purgatory and ate his first cheeseburger, it's so good to be back!

It's clear that the MoL has resources and powers that are not yet revealed. So I wouldn't be surprised if some of their members have a few new tricks up their sleeves to combat most threats. With all their knowledge and library of magical artifacts, who knows if the Senior members are just as power-hungry and disillusioned as Magnus was.

I'm sure the MoL has some UN-type of council where they congregate and discuss the problems of the paranormal world. I have to agree with Sam though, where the hell were they all this time? I know the Senior members wanted to stay out of it but by allowing those awful things to occur, they're just as bad as Sam and Dean for creating those problems. What were they going to do if Dean failed to reach Sam in the cemetery in Swan Song? Or if the Leviathans succeeded in enslaving mankind? How about the Veil where before Billie took them all for the bomb, there were millions of trapped innocent spirits just waiting to become eventual poltergeists? I say the MoL (any world chapter) has a lot to answer for just as much as the Winchesters. Maybe if they intervened years ago, they could've avoided Leviathans, Angels falling and the Darkness. Then again, we wouldn't have anymore SN episodes :) Regardless, you know the old saying: Evil wins when good men do nothing.

Although I did like the opening montage, I wish they had a British band do the intro. I would've loved to hear the Rolling Stones or the Who play at the beginning. Not only to signify the new season started, but that the British are coming :D But I assume the heavy licensing fees are prevented that.
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catleigh
catleigh
35. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 15 2016, 8:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2016, 8:31 PM EDT
"
It also introduced us to the fact that there ARE magic weapons of this kind.

YES, the scenario was convoluted and highly improbable and unbelievable, but I actually think that introducing some new "mighty toys" could be great fun....since Angel Blades must have been on sale at some point, because everybody seems to have them nowadays and the Ruby Knife has limited use...

But, of course, they could have made this all much less clonky. :)

PNP "
Hi PNP, good to be back and find you all here! I'm crazy-busy these days, starting a new career and working insane hours, but I still need my SPN fix and love having people to talk about it with!

You made me laugh with that comment on the angel blades--so true! Remember when the only thing that could kill an angel was another angel? Back when demons seemed like a real threat and were scary.....

And you're right that the intro of some serious magical weaponry could be a welcome addition....

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Wandlimb
Wandlimb
36. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 16 2016, 12:54 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 16 2016, 12:54 AM EDT
Maybe they were in the Forest of Coincidence (any Galavant fans?).

But, I thought Mary killed the Brit with Cas's blade?

What saves shows like this and Blacklist and others with huge plot holes is the acting. I also find Cas and Sam to be appropriately frightening, even if they are taken down a bit more than I think likely.

catleigh -- the Flash! LOL!
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
37. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 16 2016, 10:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 16 2016, 10:58 AM EDT
"Maybe they were in the Forest of Coincidence (any Galavant fans?).

But, I thought Mary killed the Brit with Cas's blade?

What saves shows like this and Blacklist and others with huge plot holes is the acting. I also find Cas and Sam to be appropriately frightening, even if they are taken down a bit more than I think likely.

catleigh -- the Flash! LOL!"
HAHAHA - yes! The Forest of Coincidence!!! Very true.

I meant that Crowley owns an angel blade and I think the Boys have one, too. And there were others over the last season that seemed to have them, like they were an item easily purchased at Walmart.

1raith, I agree on the music choice for the intro - a BRIT ROCK song would have been PERFECT...but I am sure you are correct in assuming that SPN can't afford them. :)

PNP
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kate38
kate38
38. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 16 2016, 4:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 17 2016, 4:33 AM EDT
"I do think it served another purpose, besides the fact that Mary saved Dean (ALTHOUGH he almost got shot in the process....) and then obviously felt horrible about taking a human life...


PNP"
Hmmm -- interesting observation about Mary. I thought she was looking at her hands because they weren't shaking at all, and maybe she'd expected herself to be shaken since she'd just killed someone.

I took her dsiturbed look as more of a realization that she truly is a hunter (even if she doesn't want to be) than guilt over the fact that she'd just killed someone. But then again, I'm not getting a lot of emotion from Mary to begin with, so maybe I misread that scene.

Kate
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Wandlimb
Wandlimb
39. RE: Let's all talk "Keep Calm and Carry On" (S12 E1) here!
Oct 16 2016, 8:05 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 16 2016, 8:05 PM EDT
"I meant that Crowley owns an angel blade and I think the Boys have one, too. And there were others over the last season that seemed to have them, like they were an item easily purchased at Walmart.

PNP"
Good point, PNP. It would be better if only an angle wielding an angle blade could kill an angel, or at least that it would be difficult for a demon or human to use one. They wrote themselves into a corner, I suppose.

Kate, I agree with you that I thought she was dismayed to not only be back hunting monsters but, even worse, not killing people.
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